Moved over here from "Classified" forum.

Well, it looks like my search is over.

I've located a Vintage Cogswell & Harrison in 404 Jeffery. It was built on a P-17 Action. I also found an identical rifle posted on the Africahunting Forun that was said to be a Rhodesian Game Department rifle. Its serial number is only 3000 higher than this one. With the two serial numbers being so close, I'm thinking this one might also have been used by the Wardens.

Interestingly, this rifle has a "thumb slot" for loading with a striper clip. I wonder what that is about. Perhaps for rapid reloading when culling a herd by a Game Warden?

One question that I would have is: Since the bottom metal is aluminum on both of these rifles, what would the manufacturing date be for these guns?

One fellow with an identical rifle in 318WR caliber said his Cogswell & Harrison was made
"between the Wars".

My guess would be after WWII, but I have no hard evidence other than I don't think Aluminum was used for bottom metal before then. Does anyone know for sure, or have an opinion?

Here are some pics of the rifle:

it amazes me how so many cannot get that rear bridge right.

Hello siera whiskey,

Whats wrong with the rear bridge?

The alloy bottom metal is most likely made or supplied by BSA, as it is identical in style and shape to the alloy bottom metal they used on their early range of Majestic, Monarch and Hunter rifles. They also use steel on some.

BTW what changed your mind as I thought you answered an earlier post saying you did not want another P17 actioned rifle?

Hello eagle27,

Thanks for the reply.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
The alloy bottom metal is most likely made or supplied by BSA, as it is identical in style and shape to the alloy bottom metal they used on their early range of Majestic, Monarch and Hunter rifles. They also use steel on some.

It would be interesting to know which of the two firms used the alloy bottom metal first. Cogswell & Harrison advertised such as early as 1949. (see ads) Not sure when BSA first mentioned it. Perhaps C&H supplied it to BSA.

quote:

BTW what changed your mind as I thought you answered an earlier post saying you did not want another P17 actioned rifle?

Well, like I also said in an earlier post;

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
I'm still looking for the "right" "Vintage" 404 Jeffery. Not exactly sure what I want - but I'll know it when I see it.

...... also, sometimes you don't know what you want until you get it in hand. Upon further investigation about this rifle, it matched much of my criteria. A Vintage rifle, made by an Old World English Maker, with unique African History.

Another factor was the final price, which was less than a comperable condition 404J built on a Mauser action.

Looks cool to me especially with some history behind it

I looked at that very rifle and took photos of it at the SCI convention two years ago.
The thumb slot can be a slight aid when you need to reload fast, even without stripper clips. I cut one in my MKX Mauser 458 and like it.

Hello 458Win,

Thanks for the reply. I'd sure like to see the photos.

I had a nice C&H in .375, I made the bottom metal with files and sand paper, and had it color case hardened, It took me six months to file that blank bottom metal to a finish.. I sold that rifle, so if any of you run across that gun with the bottom metal let me know..Its one of those I sold to buy a rope horse...Id like to buy that gun back if I can find it..I sold it in a gun store in Salt Lake City..

I have the same rifle as buckstix but no thumb cut, and his bluing is in way better condition. My Durallium floorplate isn’t quite as unscathed either!

Great to see the advertisements, mine weighs considerably less, around 8lbs 2oz.

classic!!... as a fan on the model 1917's and p14's, id like to duplicate this....nice!!!...

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
I have the same rifle as buckstix but no thumb cut, and his bluing is in way better condition. My Durallium floorplate isn’t quite as unscathed either!

Great to see the advertisements, mine weighs considerably less, around 8lbs 2oz.

Hello Rockdoc

Mine weighs 8 pounds 10 ounces.

I would slug the bore before firing. A friend in Dallas had the same rifle ten years or so ago, told me he slugged the barrel and it was around .418,really strange, but some oddball stuff came out of England Post-War.

Yep, check the bore, there weren't standards at the beginning, I have a William Powell that slugs out at .419 and checking into it, they ranged from .417 up!

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
I would slug the bore before firing. A friend in Dallas had the same rifle ten years or so ago, told me he slugged the barrel and it was around .418,really strange, but some oddball stuff came out of England Post-War.

Hello lee440,
Thanks for the reply.

Bore slugs spot-on at .422 - .423.

quote:

Originally posted by ~Arctic~:
Yep, check the bore, there weren't standards at the beginning, I have a William Powell that slugs out at .419 and checking into it, they ranged from .417 up!

Hello `Arctic~,
Thanks for the reply.

The bore slugs .422 - .423, and shoots great with both Woodleigh and Hawk bullets.

Buckstix I will recheck mines weight. The forend is a bit shorter than yours, similar to horizontal photos in the ad shown above. Also no thumb cutout.

What load are you using with 400gn Woodleighs to match the sights? I have loaded some with RE15 which I like in doubles, but yet to shoot them.

Did try with some Hornady Factory at around 2315fps IIRC but shot high to the left (again IIRC), just too fast.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Buckstix I will recheck mines weight. The forend is a bit shorter than yours, similar to horizontal photos in the ad shown above. Also no thumb cutout.

What load are you using with 400gn Woodleighs to match the sights? I have loaded some with RE15 which I like in doubles, but yet to shoot them.

Did try with some Hornady Factory at around 2315fps IIRC but shot high to the left (again IIRC), just too fast.

Hello Rockdoc,
Thanks for the reply.

I have only tested 2 loads in the C&H - neither one is max - both shot to the sights ...

400g Barnes - 55g AA5744 - 2150 fps - 1-1/4" @ 50yds - sd= 11
350g Hawk - - 559 AA5744 - 2080 fps - 1-1/4" @ 50yds - sd= 19

Thanks buckstix. Sort of velocity I am seeking.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Thanks buckstix. Sort of velocity I am seeking.

Hello Rockdoc,
Thanks for the reply.

I seldom shoot MAX velocity in any of my 404's. I want to have fun, not punishment.

The 404 on the Enfield action can sure take more pressure than 2100 can cook up...I shot mine, I say mine because Ive owned more than a few 404s over the years...

Push that 400 gr. bullet to 2400 FPS and the 450 gr. Woodleigh to 2300 FPS..It will sure work better than the old world 2100 FPS has been my experience, and historically Kynoch and/or Rigby jumped their old loads to 2300 as the Africans of the day complained bitterly Ive read..Talking too the rep at SCI some years ago told me that was a fact indeed..Im not saying 2100 won't work, it will and Ive used it ind the 404 and in my favorite double the 450-400 in 3" or 3.25"s, but I felt more velocity hit harder, and I loaded my 450-400 Searcys to almost 2250 with not a problem. Never my English 450-400 doubles. I did load them to 2150 in the 3.25" and 2125 in the 3".. without a problem.

Good find. These were standard issue for the Zambia Game Department I think back in the 60's especially for those dealing with problem animals.

I have a Charles Osbourne .404J and often use it as my carry gun.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Good find. These were standard issue for the Zambia Game Department I think back in the 60's especially for those dealing with problem animals.

I have a Charles Osbourne .404J and often use it as my carry gun.

Hello fairgame,
Thanks for the reply.

I obtained a Factory Letter for this rifle. Not too much info, but still a nice record to have with the rifle.

This one had a small copper medal tucked under follower spring. can't find any additional info about it.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Good find. These were standard issue for the Zambia Game Department I think back in the 60's especially for those dealing with problem animals.

I have a Charles Osbourne .404J and often use it as my carry gun.

Hello fairgame,
Thanks for the reply.

I obtained a Factory Letter for this rifle. Not too much info, but still a nice record to have with the rifle.

This one had a small copper medal tucked under follower spring. can't find any additional info about it.

They were supplied to both Southern and Northern Rhodesian game Departments.