Hi! I haven't posted on this board in years--literally! It's good to be back!

Now, here's the question du jour: Does anyone here have experience with the .45-120 Sharps cartridge? If so, post your opinions and experience, please! I'm going to get one, and I want to hear from as many people as possible.

Thanks!

I haven't had much experience with it as a black powder cartridge, but I have had one built on a Ruger #1 action. It is basically a rimmed 458 Lott. Hope this helps a bit.

I have had two different H@R rifles which I had punched out to the .45-120.
My thoughts on the cartridge:
It's easy to load for, in either the light loads or the heavy duplication of the .450 Nitro. I've never had a problem with them at all.
The only thing that I feel is bad, is that with this length of brass, the base diam. of the cartridge should be larger. It actually looks pretty weird, loaded with a 500gr. Hornady. Not aesthetically balanced, as the .450 nitro is.
Plus-the .450 nitro, has more powder room--not much-but enough to matter pressure-wise.
Thats the only thing that has ever bugged me about it.
However, it will duplicate the .450 nitro--(I must say, ONLY in modern guns with sufficient actions).
The H@R's will handle it, however, I would not personally recommend them---they are not built with sufficient weight and balance, so be warned. They were merely a fun thing on my part, which did not include serious use.

When we back down to milder loads, the cartridge then seems to become a burden. Mainly, because in this guise, with modern powders, the .45-90, or .45-100(which has more available brass) can do the same thing power-wise.
So, basically, one has only two options with it---load it to full nitro eqv., which is rather defeating the purpose, because of sufficient rifles to put it in these days, OR, load it with black and be a hardcore period-correct hunter form the 1880's.
Not many more options for it.
edit: I must agree with the above---in a Ruger, the possibilities are wonderful, however, I've not "personally" tried this, so I have no opinion, other than to say---it would still be a single shot-not good for DG.
Also, with an H@R, NEVER take it above the .450 nitro pressures. The Ruger can handle it surely, but the H@R is limited to double rifle pressure. Just wanted to add this, before someone found this thread and went out and tried to have a Lott in a handi-rifle, and end up in the ER.

Thanks!

The rifle I've ordered will be a C. Sharps, with a heavy octagon barrel, 32".

So far, I've become interested in one load; a 400 grain bullet, on top of 115 grains of Goex Fg (with the attendant overpowder/grease/fiber wads.

Keep the info coming, folks!

With a cartridge that big, shouldn't you use at least a 500 grain bullet? It'll carry a bit farther in the wind and will probably be more accurate too.

For the Sharps, I'd limit loads and pressure to the ones listed online at the Hodgdon website.
Remember, if you get tired of cleaning that blackpowder gunk out of the barrel, you can always do this: .40 X Black = load of IMR 4198 to duplicate the blackpowder load. A filler (I use dacron) must be used, (probably about 14-15 grs. of dacron). I've used this cartridge without filler with 4198, but it will hangfire a lot, and it's not as pleasant.
The dacron MUST be compressed with NO airspace.
For ex.---120grs. of Black= 48grs. of 4198.
For the online data--if they do not recommend a filler, then don't use one-then the ball is in their court, so to speak.
But with 4198, you can't go wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by 475Guy1:
With a cartridge that big, shouldn't you use at least a 500 grain bullet? It'll carry a bit farther in the wind and will probably be more accurate too.

I agree--with blackpowder, the more bullet, the better.
In the buffalo hunting days, it was mostly the bullet that did the work, and not always the charge, as evidenced by the .45-70
A HEAVY bullet, to "carry" through.

Hm. Then a heavy bullet it is.

I have heard about the "Postell" 525 grain; it is a spitzer-type with lots of grease grooves.

Thoughts?

I have a Shilo sharps 45-110 I reamed to 45-120. Use a 500 gr bullet with spg lube and a duplex load of 10 grs of 3fg followed by a case full of Goex cartridge. Compress the powder till the bullet seats and crimps. I use a LDP plastic wad between the powder and the bullet base. I also index my bullets. I've won my fair share of 1000yrd matches against some damn good shooters with that load and gun. Get some good sights. My load has a std dev. of 5fps. Thats why it shoots so well.-Rob

Robgunbuilder--Thanks!!! I will copy and use this load data shamelessly. A bit of clarification:

"Goex Ctg." = 2F, I believe?

And, how do you obtain the proper measurements to determine how far to compress the charge? Scooping the case full of Goex 2f, and compressing it until the bullet seats--is it REALLY that simple to obtain a good load?

Also, is your bullet lubed or patched, and if lubed, what do you lube with? Do you patch out between shots, or use a blow tube?

(Absolutely sucking up all of this information--keep it coming, folks!!!!

quote:

A filler (I use dacron) must be used, (probably about 14-15 grs. of dacron). I've used this cartridge without filler with 4198, but it will hangfire a lot, and it's not as pleasant.
The dacron MUST be compressed with NO airspace.

I have a Ruger #1 in .45-120 with a 29" half octagon/half round barrel, 1" at the muzzle, and have loaded all smokeless loads because I don't want the mess with black. I have loaded bullets from .405 Remingtons (they act like 50 grainers in a .22-250) to 720 gr. cast gas checked bullets. Like walksfar said, you have to fill the case with something or risk hangfires I also use polyester fiberfil used in dress making (available from any fabric store), to take up the space. I've never used the rifle for serious purposes just as a "fun gun" to impress those that never fired a rifle that kicked too much. My usual "impress-the-rube" load was 96 grs. of W-W 785 ball powder and a 500 gr. Hornady. At 14 lbs, it will still get your attention quckly.

Goex Cartridge is 2FG but specifically designed for minimal residues. Basically, you need to determine with your bullet and wad how much 2FG to add so that a seated bullet come just to the crimp groove with zero airspace using a powder compression die. Once you determine that amount of powder, weigh it out and then add it to each case with a 24 inch drop tube. Chrono your loads and shoot for groups at 200 yrds not 100. When you get 2MOA or less at 200yrds with a sd of <10 fps your in buisness. I hand lube my bullets with SPG and cast them to be .001 over the bore diameter with 1:10 tin/lead alloy. I do not size the bullets at all. I patch out my barrel after each shot.-Rob

To be clear, I put 10 grs of 4fg into a sized and mouth belled case with a Fed 215 primer. I then add the Goex cartridge (weighed on a balance) through a 24 inch drop tube. I then add the polyethylene wad and compress the load with a powder compression die. I then add the lubed bullet and seat it by hand so as not to deform the bullet. Each bullet has a little "nub" that I index the cartridge with in the barrel. I then crimp the case to the bullet with a collet die and am good to go.-Rob

I have a Shiloh Sharps 45-120 #1 Sporting Rifle with a 30in. extra heavy half octagon bbl. I use a load of 41gr. XMP5744 Accurate Arms powder with a 550gr. hard cast bullet. Gives me a measured 1525 fps on an Oehler 33 chronograph. Shoots great and no need for filler. Great accuracy and no need to deal with the BP fowling. Tried BP once and too much hassle. Get same accuracy with the above load. SD usually around 14-15.
As usual, do not use my loading data as it may be too much pressure for your rifle. Recommended starting load on the Accurate Arms web site is around 39 GR.

The duplex load makes a world of difference in powder fouling. The accuracy of these loads at long range is astonishing. I really like the big Boom,smell of Black Powder and then that solid WACK when that big bullet hits the siholette's way out there after a 2-3 second flight time. Pretty cool guns!-Rob

Fouling control can be managed via compression and powder selection. I would not use Goex Cart but Goex Express instead. It will cost you more and shoot better in everyway.

In a cartridge of that length, minimal compression with Goex is likely to be around 0.3". It may be as high as 0.5 or even more. You will need a compression die to do this. If you use the bullet it will deform and may not even chamber.

Bullets under 500 grs are a waste of time...

You will get better info at the shiloh or bpcr.net forums. You will also catch some flack for the 120 case, but stick to it if that's what you want. Rebarreling is a fact of life...

Brent