Hello. I have never crimped a bullet while reloading for a bolt rifle but got wondering about the big bores and recoil. For those of you who reload 404 Jeffery rounds, do you crimp your bullets? Am I worrying about nothing? Thank you for your help. Gary

I crimp everything with the Lee factory crimp.

If the bullet I am using has a crimp groove, well placed for my choice of powder density, then I do. For bullets with no crimping groove then I don't sweat it. The 404J has a very long neck and bullet movement at normal loading velocities isn't an issue.

My two 404 Jeffery rifles have hardly any recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
I crimp everything with the Lee factory crimp.

+1....Lee factory crimps for everything other than single shot rifles.

I turn a thosands or two of my expander ball to tighten up the neck then use a powder (4831)that fills the case to half way or better up the neck and seat the bullet, it won't move. If I was amind to crimp I would go with a special made taper crimp die..

When I loaded RWS solids in my 404 for buffalo hunting I crimped in the cannelure but when loading for target use I don't bother and the bullets never moved. A 400gr cup and core seated to the crimping groove uses the full neck length which is quite long in the 404 case so there is plenty of bullet grip available.
I also use 4831 powder although a lighter charge than Ray does and the powder fills the case up to the shoulder/neck junction so the bullet is just seated to the powder.

I don't crimp cast and cannot crimp the RWS 347gr bullets I have a small stash of as they do not have a crimping groove, they never move under recoil.

Thank you everyone for the responses. I am not going to worry about the crimp at this point. I do wish that I had the same recoil success as Wink though!

quote:

Originally posted by GaryG:
Thank you everyone for the responses. I am not going to worry about the crimp at this point. I do wish that I had the same recoil success as Wink though!

Fitting a Pachmayr Decelerator pad to my Mauser tamed the felt recoil a lot as does shooting cast bullets at reduced velocities.

I crimp my 404, be careful with the long neck that you don't crush the neck with too tight a crimp.

If you only going to shoot on a range - no problem. If you are going to use your 404 for what it was intended, best too crimp

I crimp all my handloads in my 500 Jeffery. If I don't the bullets tend to work themselves out of the cases.

I had some Lee Factory Crimp does made for my 404J. Special order, a gentleman in the USA very kindly sent them an case with projectile for me.

I still have a couple spare, cheaper to buy half a dozen and sell some.

I am sure eagle27 that the steal butt plate probably doesn't help much

But doesn't crimping help prevent the bullets in the magazine from moving under recoil?

quote:

Originally posted by GaryG:
I am sure eagle27 that the steal butt plate probably doesn't help much

Actually my Mauser had a "New Rubber Company" branded ventilated recoil pad fitted (presumably in Rhodesia where the rifle came from) but I found that the light 8.5 pound rifle was still hard on the shoulder even with that pad. When fitted with a 2X Leupold scope and a magazine full adding another pound weight overall, the felt recoil wasn't tamed much. Mind you the butt size of the original Oberndorf Sporter stock needs a 'small' sized pad grinding down to fit so there is not a lot of area to spread the recoil.
To me, the softer more pliant Decelerator pad seems to soak up recoil better making the rifle more pleasant to shoot off the bench.

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
But doesn't crimping help prevent the bullets in the magazine from moving under recoil?

Yes you are correct but it also depends on the cartridge to magazine dimensions. If the magazine is much longer than the COAL the recoiling magazine can slap the bullet nose driving it into the case, especially for those cartridges that stay in the bottom of the magazine as fresh ones are topped up after each shot. Was more of a problem for professional hunters with bolt actions who were shooting multiple animals and continually topping up their magazines.

For double rifle users the opposite happens with the bullet 'pulled' from the case as the gun and cartridge recoils away. If the second barrel is not fired while the first barrel is fired a few times, apparently this can see bullet pulling occurring in the second barrel.

In either case I don't think many visiting hunters will be firing enough shots from their bolt or double to see this phenomenon happening.
Still nothing like being sure and crimping for hunting loads.

When I do crimp, I just set up my RCBS bullet seating die to apply a good crimp as the bullet is seated. Just have to have all cases trimmed to the same length, works perfectly.

Ok. I see that I made a big mistake when hand loading my rounds. My new brass was all under max length so all I worried about was my overall cartridge length. I would now need to pull my bullets and make all of my cases uniform in length if I choose to add a crimp for recoil.
This has been a learning experience for sure. Thank you for everyone's responses.
Gary

Case length is not a significant factor when using a taper crimp die like the Lee Factory Crimp die. Case length is critical with a roll crimp into a bullet cannalure. A powder charge with compression will also stop bullet setback. This is all covered in the A-Square reloading manual "Any Shot You Want". Why not just taper crimp your loaded rounds and save all that work?

A taper crimp die is all that's needed, but I go by for years by turning the expander ball down and that makes the bullet fit more snug, then fill the case with 4831 to half way up the neck, and the bullets won't set back from recoil off the magazine box, but if they do then add the taper crimp die and it will never move, not a bad idea for DG hunting, and it can benefit accuracy as a rule..As too case length its always a good idea to trim cases to the same specs, even though you supposedly don't need to with the taper crimp die..My 404s were loaded max and I really never needed a taper crimp die, but I used it most of the time, a pound of cure you know! When you get to the big 50s you need all the help you can get, they move bullets, not so much the 404s and 416s, also its absolutely a must with double rifle as the can pull the case off the bullet and you got a mess on your hands to clean up, and a gun that can't shoot..