I just noticed that Cabelas has Norma brass for the 404 in their '05 shooting catalog. Item #
XS-21-3619 Code 673. $78 per 50 pieces.

That's even a decent price. I think I have enough though, the Norma brass lasts along time, at least w/ 400gr @ 2200fps.

I use a lot of Norma brass with my .404..I get mine from Huntingtons....My favorite brass of all is RWS and I have some .404 in that make, but its been discontinued....

I hope that Lapua and RWS will make it once federal starts making ammo and CZ has the guns out...Maybe Winchester or even Fed will makes some brass and I bet Graff will have some and Hornady will surely jump on that bandwagon..

Now you're atlking, Ray. Hadn't ever thought of being able to buy RWS or Hornady brass. That would be sweet indeed.
I also go to Huntingtons for my 404 brass. I think it usually runs abour $120/100, but that is a pretty good price for 50.

Na Bwana, but better than Cabela's:
29501A 375 H&H 95.85
21043A 404 Jeffery 140.30

Midway, .375 Remington Ultra Magnum, $46.00/100 for caseforming to .404 Jeffery. Works great.

You gotta be kidding, you have to fireform the cases, thats cost the difference alone and then you have once fired brass, and sooner or later you always lose a few when fireforming and then weaken some others..Its cheaper to just pay a couple of more dollars I would think, but I buy wholesale through the company, so whatever works.

Howdy, Ray. Shooting weather is back, here in Nevada, and the rifles are due for a workout.

I shoot a lot of .404 ammo with cast bullets, not having any game (or paper targets!) locally that need Woodleighs and Barnes bullets. Much of the stuff is loaded to the 365/2400 fps level, which is well above the original British factory load.

My cost for prepping the .375 RUM is:

primer: 1.5 cents:

powder (20.0 2400 or similar): +/- 3 cents;

NO bullet;

...and a caseful of cornmeal which I swipe from my wife's pantry.

Call it about 5 cents per case and we'll be close.

I've yet to lose a case in fireforming, out of about 300 rounds to date, and they headspace FIRMLY during the process, so I really don't believe I'm weakening them, either. Also I've never lost cases to neck splits or cracking.

For my purposes, which are practice and full-power fun, the RUMs are great. I have enough Kynoch Boxer-primed brass on hand to cover my butt with African customs if that happy day should ever arrive, but the Remington stuff works very well. The .404's shape can lend itself to short case life at full-power levels, so I'm happy using up the cheaper Remingtons. Even if I threw the cases away after the first "real" firing, I'd be shooting full-power .404 for about seventy cents per round, and that is VERY economical big-bore shooting.

.404 brass availability sure has vastly improved over the last few years, because for quite a while there was almost none. My rifle has seen more shooting in the last three years than in the preceding twenty years, all due to brass being available, and especially since the RUM cases came on the market. Mind you, I am a handloading junkie and don't see any of this as an inconvenience at all.

I wish someone made a less-expensive round which could be formed to .416 Rigby...fortunately, my #1 is very kind in how it treats the Rigby brass and it lasts almost forever. The cost of my on-hand (Norma) Rigby brass amounts to almost 1/2 the price of the rifle!

Good shooting.

BruceB,
That convices me to try the .375 RUM to .404 Jeffery plinker route. I have lots of .375 RUM because I have bought it cheap here and there. Fred has been doing that for awhile, it seems, and also says it is do-able.

How many full power firings can you get out of a standard .404 Jeffery case? Thanks.

Hey Rip, I am on a batch of (5) fired & everything is tight. This is my 400gr @ 2200fps load. The RUM brass works fine, It's seems abit more work than Bren recounts. The RUM brass is ever so slightly larger in dia. @ the case head, so you have to size w/ Imperial or other good sizing lube & do it in stages. I size so there is a false shoulder bump that crush fits in the chamber. 22gr of H4227, creamofwheat, 1-2gr poly fill, seal w/ candle wax & fire. Works great, but I only did it to see if I could & would rather buy Norma. I just got 40rds of RWS NIB on ebay for about $40. Hopefully Federal or Hornady will start making "affordable" brass soon. At 6-8 firings though, I expect I'll not run out soon.

Thanks Fred. Wouldn't want to use the RUM for anything serious, with rebated rim, but if it makes good plinkers, that is fine. I'll see if I can get 5 firings out of my hot loads, watching for loose primer pockest and incipient case head separation.

Bren,
Thanks for the information, in your case it sounds like a good thing...

What is the size difference of the case head of the 375 RUM vs. $)$ Jeffery?

It's about .542 vs .550", which may not seem like much, but my chamber is only cut to .550" so I don't think I'll be going that route myself. Sorta like turning down the belt on 6.5 Rem for your 284. I'm sure it's been done plenty.
Ken Howell calls .005" the maximum base swage, though I'm not sure how he drew the line. He mentions work hardening as a possibility. I won't try to talk anyone out of the practice, just adding some thoughts.
RWS for $1/pc?! Score!

Yeah Bwana, I was surprised there were few bidders on that one.
RIP, you're right, I thought of the RUM brass for "plinking" loads because the rim is a tiny bit smaller. Still not worth the effort to me though, just wanted to see if it could be done & the RUM brass was very cheap. Of course I got (2) cases stuck in my sizing die when I started. It must be done in steps, lubing the case each time, just more trouble than it's worth.

Fred,
Well, shoot! If you gave it up and got a case stuck in the trial then I am forgetting it. I have more Norma brass for the .404 Jeffery on the way from Cabela's.

ANother tip for .404 shooters; Midway has a birthday program where you get a one order, everything 20% off deal. I bought a few boxes of Woodleighs & some Norma brass then!

Since the Rum brass is .550 @ the base, stuck cases in the .404 sizer sounds possible. I was contemplating the same thing using 375 RUM brass to make 450 Vincents, but the base diameter thing had me stumped.

Yeah, gixxer, if you haven't made the gun yet, and if you want to use RUM brass, just make it a RUM chamber. It's not like a 450 Vincent is any less a custom proposition than a 458 RUM. You might even have better luck finding the reamer and dies for it already in someone's hands, at least here in the states.

For the sake of conversation Huntington's has the 450(or 458)ultra mag dies listed under the custom dies. But there lies the proposition of getting the reamer. Would have to contact RCBS to get the dimensions of the sizer. But enough of me, I am gonna start another thread instead of jabroneying this one anymore than I have to...

Gentlemen....

I'm a working stiff, and money means something to me. I'm also a VERY active handloader, and the difference between 20 rounds/$40 and 20 rds/$11 represents almost TWO THOUSAND PRIMERS, and that in turn represents one heck of a lot of cast-bullet shooting. I typically fire 8,000 to 10,000 or more rifle rounds per year and it adds up.

In my original descriptiuon of reforming the RUM brass to .404 some months back, I referred to sizing it in a couple of steps. Troubles: NONE. Extra time: minimal. Maybe there's some unfortunate stacking of tolerances in some gun/die relationships, but as repeatedly stated, in MY Cogswell & Harrison rifle and MY RCBS dies (1970 vintage) there are no problems at all.

Unfired untouched new .375 RUM brass on my bench right now measures .5445" just ahead of the extractor groove, and .5335" on the rim. NOT .550"!!!

Reformed and fired .375 RUMs measure .545/base and .533 rim....virtually unchanged, in other words.

By comparison, Kynoch Boxer-primed (fired) brass measures .541" on the base and .540 on the rim. Kynoch BERDAN brass (fired) is .544"/base and .540/rim.

Reformed-to-.404 .338 RUM brass (fired) is .544/base and .535 rim.

The rim diameter difference amounts to only .007", which is LESS than two thicknesses of computer-printer paper. This is essentially meaningless as far as function goes in my rifle.

I hope this clarifies things a tad, and I'm off to the mine!

I am not doubting your measurements, but if that is true, then why would the rest of the gun industry, to include manufacturers, reloading manuals, etc. say that the case head is .550? Not picking, asking a serious question.

I'll have to break out the calipers, but in my case, using Redding dies, RUM cases require lubing & sizing in at least (3) steps. Like I said, stuck a case twice . The rim dia. is enough diff. that you should use a shell holder for the RUM not the .404 during sizing (that's how I got the 1st case stuck). The rim diff. doesn't seem to bother functioning in my M70, just the saeme, I'll only use them for practice & dummy rounds.

Huntingdons has them for $140 for 100 peices about $15-18 dollars cheaper than Midway or Cabelas

Bruce, that sounds a lot better. Different brass runs will come out different, sure.
And the .550" has a SAAMI tolerance parenthesis around it. Not certain but I believe that is .008", so your's are still well within.
My chamber was cut a bit on the tight side on purpose, so even going to .5445" cuts into the clearance by about 35% (My brass is about .542" and I beleive my chamber base runs about .547-8".) A little too close for high-pressure loads. But I could easily be convinced to use them for plinking. Who knows, I might even find some RUM brass that's smaller than yours....

If I read it right Huntingtons has norma 404 brass on sale for $90.00 per 100.
Fred

quote:

TEMPORARY LINK TO OUR CHAT ROOMS

WV fred,

Unless you are getting a special deal from Huntingtons I have listed at 140$ for 100 pieces.
Clue us in on the trick if you are getting them for $90

I'm clicking on the reloading specials on the right side of the page.
Fred

Thanks fred!

This must be a new special wasn't there last week!
I am ordering now!!!!