I know the Barns is a mono, but what about GS and Bridger. Are they mono?

When switching from Woodleigh solids to a mono solid, should I lower my maximum achieved velocity? Just that I keep hearing that you neet to reduce your charge when shooting mono. Makes sense that my velociy will be lower.

Just wondering.

GA, your velocity will not be lower, as the monolithic solid creates much higher chamber pressure, useing the same load as with a convetnional solid! The metel in the bronze solids is much harder to displace by the rifleing, and acts much like an oversize bullet, that is too tight in the bore! If you are thinking of useing these things in a double, I'd think again, they are fine in a single barrel rifle, but will sometimes break the solder bond between the barrels, and ribs on a double!

When substituteing a monolithic solid in place of a conventional solid, you need back off 5% on the powder load, and work up slow! Especially, if you are near max with the conventional solid!

The GS and Bridger are both monolithic but due to the pressure rings that surround the bullets, they create less pressure than a Barnes or a conventional softpoint therefore you can load them a few grs. more that the others..With the pressure rings you can also shoot them in double rifles, NOT SO WITH THE BARNES SOLIDS AS THEY DO NOT HAVE PRESSURE RINGS....

In soft nose persuasion the same applies, except that Barnes apparantly has a new bullet with the pressure rings as does GS and Northfork and a few others as I recall..

The basic reason for this is the pressure rings cause less (about 50% less) contact with the bore than a solid bullet.

Go to GS Customs web page for a better, more precise explanation on this new technology....

According to the Barnes website, the Triple Shock bullets with the grooves are not cuurently made in any caliber larger than .308. FYI

Why in the world would you move away from the Woodleigh Solid???

Barnes Triple Shock copied more from the Bridger design than from GS, but Barnes execcuted the concept poorly.

What's the deal with the Speer African Grand Slams and why are they priced the same as a new Porche? I understand they are mono-solids, but I always thought pure gold was a mite on the soft side for deep penetration.

Speer�s AGS come in two forms Softs and Solids. The solid is a component bullet made of a tungsten core and gilding exterior. The softs use a drawn jacket with a lead core. Both undergo a lot of machining thus making them more expensive.

The only real benefit of the AGS solid is the tungsten core makes them marginally shorter. This is good news for those who handload the .458 WinMag.

Link - http://www.speer-bullets.com

What's wrong with Woodleighs???

GAHunter,

The various makers of the monolithic solids offer different features in their products, such as shank design (plain or ridged), nose design (pointed, round nose or flat), shoulder (smooth or cutting) and weight.

My current favorites are the ridged shank bullets to keep engraving forces down and also pressure, and the flat meplat nose. The flat nose gives high penetration with a wider wound channel. A cutting shoulder seems to leave a better bleed on the entry wound.

I like the GS FN solid monometallic bullet, but I hate the hassle of getting them. I don't care for the coated bullet, but I can live with that. I have only been successful in buying bullets in RSA and having them brought over by a visitor. Your mileage may vary when their USA distributor comes on line.

The last solid I actually shot at an animal was a Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer (hippo).

The Speer AGS takes advantage of tungsten being harder and heavier than lead, and I have some waiting for a future hunt.

jim dodd

Interesting. Never experienced any of this with Woodleighs in .416 Rigby, .416 Dakota, .458 Win Mag, .450 Dakota. I have never had one fail in the field and both the Weldcores and Solids are deadly accurate at the range.

I have shot Sledgehammers and Bear claws with less than spectacular accuracy at the range. I can�t depend upon GS to deliver in this century so they are off my list. I have shot North Forks in .416 at the range with good accuracy results, but not wild about light for caliber bullets. I have not shot the Bridger bullet simple because I have not been dissatisfied with Woodleigh. I guess when I have some time I might give them a try...

I love Woodleighs, but I keep reading about the "advantages" shooting game with the monos, especially the flat-nosed ones.

I love this. For a very long time the only way to get a bullet with a large, flat metplat, cutting shoulder, and reduced pressure was casting your own bullets.

It just amazes me how some think that the more money you spend, the better the product is.

Clearly, that's not the case with bullets...

I'm just REALLY glad that these new computer milling machines are out, allowing small companies to put the heat, and competition on the price fixed large companies.

The only reason anyone can charge 10 bucks a bullet for tungstun cores is if some fool buys em...

Supply and demand...

s

Probably a dumb question, but..... I am assuming the monolithic is going to be longer than a conventional solid? Any stability issues? I have used Woodleigh's with good results, what are advantages with monos?

Jim

[ 05-09-2003, 09:24: Message edited by: JBoutfishn ]

One of the dangers of shooting monolithic bullets in doubles or older singles is that the harder projectile can press the rifling through the barrel wall, so that it shows on the exterior of the barrel. Doubles are susceptible because the barrels are comparitive thin-walled, and older bolt-guns or singles because the steel is sometimes relatively soft. My mate has a long-barrelled Westley .404 with this symptom, and Graeme Wright devotes a hefty segment of his book to trouble-shooting the problem.

I am quite content with Woodleigh softs these days. No monos for me!

Like the way you think.

Cast your own and you can buy a new rifle...
s

Mac - If you are going to the trouble of re-chambering over the cost of the AGS bullets, you should chamber to a usable caliber like a .450 Dakota, .450 Rigby or a .460 Weatherby. If you want more power than the .458 WinMag, why wimp out with a Lott? You really should step up to a big boy cartridge and leave the wannabes behind.

Why settle on a 12oz bottle of beer when you can order a pint?

Some of us can do without the hangover!

Just curious if anyone else has found the Woodleigh bullets to be a bit small for caliber. In .475 most bullet maufacturers size to either .475 or .474. I`ve found the Woodleighs to be .4725 to .473. They have mentioned that I don`t have proper measuring devices but even when I put any other manufacturers bullet in my digital calipers a Woodleigh will fall through and if the Woodleigh bullet is in the calipers all the other bullets hang up. Is this only in .475. It is a screw up for neck tension.

Dave

Dave, what's it say on the box? The actual bullet diameter is normally printed on the end-board.

Consider that Fleming measured stacks of British .475 NE cartridges and found that bullet dia. varied between .474 and .483. Woodleigh had to standardize on SOMETHING, even if Kynoch et al never did!

The only two modern-manufactured projectile sizes which may cause problems with size variations in my experience are the .475 No.2 and the .450/.400.

[ 05-13-2003, 12:11: Message edited by: Marrakai ]

Just thought I would still my nose into this post and remind everyone, reading this post, that you should NEVER use mono solids in any double rifle. Homogenous projectiles cause quite a bit of expansion of the barrel, as they pass through, and this expansion can permanently disrupt the join between barrels and ribs.

When you consider this fact, it is no wonder that chamber pressures in all firearms are markedly increased when using mono or homogenous projectiles.

This is not to say that I am opposed to the use of mono projectiles - on the contrary, I think that Barnes X's are one of the best game bullets ever designed. However, for all of my big game rifles I use Woodleigh solids and have had excellent results, so far.

C'mon guys your nitpicking, the pressure of Woodligh solids or softs is no more than Swift, Nosler or most any other bullet...The ringed bullets by North Fork and GS lower pressure somewhat, but not enough to worry about, I add a grain of powder for them over a Woodleigh...Your nitpicking...

There isn't a better bullet than Woodleighs, and only a few that are as good...If your Woodleighs are giveing you pressure then your loading them to hot. Woodleighs and Noslers have been the bullets by which all others have been judged for a decade or so....

I would like to bring up a point as to bullets bringing out the rifleing imprints to the outside of the barrels in double rifles and old English rifles..

I do not believe this at all and I have researched the sugject and I have tried for years to get someone to show me a picture or a gun that this has happened to and todate it simply has not happened..I have written many letters to many people and manufacturers without receiving proof of this...I only get "well,I saw" and "there was one at SCI", but no names of the owner, not zilch.

I challange anyone to prove this phenomimon to us here on this forum!! It is nothing more than a propogated word of mouth rumor IMO....show me!

All rifle steels are harder than bronze, brass etc, it does not equate...

I do believe that Monolithic solids such as Barnes raise pressures that is established, the ribbed monolithics such as GS lower pressure and I have shot many of them in my English guns including my old Jefferys...

So the guantlet is out there, show me a photo close up or a double with the rifleing smashed to the outside of the barrels....

You do this, and I will eat crow! but you cannot as it has never happened!

Ray, I'm not nitpicking. With identical loads shooting GS, Bridger, Woodleigh Softs and Woodleigh Solids, the Woodleight solids are the ONLY bullets giving me flat primers. Flat primers = pressure.

Ray, I hope you like your crow well done!!

My mate is between houses at the moment and his guns are stored all over the place, but I will be seeing him tomorrow evening so I will put the weights on him and post photos when I get 'em. It is a single-barrel bolt-gun, not a double, but I'll expect you to 'drop ya dacks' just the same!

Do you have a copy of Graeme Wright's book "Shooting the British Double Rifle"? The second edition discusses this phenomenon in some detail, but unfortunately no photos are included.

BTW, I use Woodleighs pretty much exclusively these days, they're great! Most of my hunting is with a Jeffery .400, but I have recently acquired a Greener .577 light nitro. Photo of a recent bullet recovery can be viewed here:
http://www.australianhunting.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=288

Marraki,
Its not a matter of eating crow, its a matter of me not being able to nail down this rumor on double rifles...If it can be done and you can prove it to me then I am eternally greatfull and appreciate the fact to no end....

I have run some test, one being driving a 50 caliber bullet down an old used barrel with a 16 lb sledge, it sweaged the the bullet, and did absolutly nothing to that old barrel..I never did get that bullet out the other end of the barrel but close, so I cut the barrel behind the bullet and then drove it back out, looked like a no. two pencil.

Yes, I have both 1 and 2 of Graeme Wrights books and I have read them both many times over but Graeme has never shot a GS monolithic as of those writings as they were not available then..I agree that one should never shoot a Barnes or TCCI Monolithic solid...

Looking forward to the pics, make them good clear closeups..I have been waiting years to see this phenominum. for a long time

While you are at it, I think you had better re-read, Overstressed barrels, Paragraph 1 and 2, specifically the first sentenc of PP 2 on page 135 In Vol 2 of Graeme book, wherein he clearly states clearly that the rifling does not compress to the outside of the gun......What happens is the barrel enlarges and the lands will flatten and that you normally cannot see it with the naked eye....

marraki,

That link asked for a userid and a password.

Sorry 500grains, that shouldn't happen. You could try entering www.australianhunting.net and navigating to the Forums, selecting the 'Big Game & Overseas Hunting' topic and viewing the 'Wonderful Woodleigh Weldcores' thread.

Just in case that doesn't work either, I'll try posting the pic here. This bullet was recovered from under the hide on the off-side of a mature buffalo bull after completely penetrating the chest (.577 x 2 3/4 Light Nitro). Apologies for the fact that it looks like a gelatin recovery, normally they have chips of shoulder or rib-bone embedded in the mushroom, but this one was neat!



Ray, mate will be bringing his .404 into town next week. Stand by.

Looks like a typical Woodleigh, one of the all time great bullets IMO....I have killed a lot of game with them...I have posted a number of expanded Woodleighs from game on this forum over the years.

Marrakai, good story and I applaud you resurecting that fine old 577.

Nice photo.

The .510 570 grain Woodleighs I recovered from the dirt bank are expanded a bit further back than that but have the same general appearance. Woodleigh softs make me happy.

Marrakai,
It has been 10 days, whats the hangup on the photos of the imprinted riflings on the 404??

Ray, profuse apologies. My mate is in hospital trying to pass a kidney-stone. Hopefully this will resolve itself and we can do the photos soon. I spoke to him earlier today by phone, he is still keen but needs a little time.

He did mention that there used to be a .500 NE double in Darwin which also showed this symptom, I know the previous owner and will chase it up, but the rifle may now be inter-state.

I know you are hanging out for this, so I will do my best to get it posted as soon as circumstances permit.