In the field I prefer or frequently use the following shooting positions with rifles over 30 caliber and 3500 foot-pounds muzzle energy:

Question:
How do we prefer to hunt with rifles greater than 300mag power?

Choices:
standing on sticks, standing, sitting, prone
prone, standing on sticks, sitting
sitting, prone, leaning on tree, sticks
availability in order prone, sitting, sticks, standing
availability in order leaning on tree, sticks, sitting, standing, prone

 

I don't care much for your dividing line. With my .375 H&H, which I consider a long range gun, I would consider shooting off sticks and all the other positions.

With my .458 WM and above the choices would be standing, standing, standing and standing, because I have never used such a rifle at more than 50 yards and always used it in situations where things are likely to change in a hurry.

Also, you left out kneeling, which is a much more stable position than standing, and useful in situations where sitting cannot be used because of underbrush, etc.

Of course, I was a competitive rifle shooter for more than 40 years and a skeet shooter as well, so shooting standing, unsupported, comes naturally to me. I recommend practice, practice, practice.

Out the 50 yards, I love shooting off hand standing. Like xausa, I shoot at a lot of flying clay objects (although I shoot a lot more trap than I do skeet), so shooting off hand is something I've really adapted well to since I started shooting trap regularly about 3 years ago. Out to 100yds, off a steady rest or solid sticks I'm very confident with my 375. I've shot it out to 200yds, but then I require a more steady rest and a bit more time.

Behind the rifle! Now that I have that martial thought out of my mind after this weeks events; sitting with sticks, kneeling with sticks, standing and swinging. The last covers quick shooting. The others when time and terrain allow.
Best regards.

I shoot whichever the target presents, i.e. Offhand, Off of Sticks, and Kneeling.

Yes, discussion is probably more useful than the poll. Sorry about leaving off 'kneeling'. I actually do that often enough while leaning against a tree. There is even a rare 'grab the six-foot grass'+ standing/kneeling.

And I'm not sure how to qualify 'ant hill'. It can be a mix of kneeling, sitting, and prone. I just like to make sure that there are no fresh holes where I lie down. I've killed a couple of cobras coming out of little anthills. But then again, I've knocked over a lot of little ant hills.
the main thing with anthills and trees is to get your hat between the tree and your rifle/hand.

Standing, leaning against a tree, sitting or kneeling with or without a sling. I don't shoot my 500 Jeffery prone, broke a collar bone as a kid falling out of a tree, have no desire to repeat that experience.

I once killed an elephant while standing atop of an ant (termite) mound. I'm not sure what prompted me to do so, but I once read of Bell, I think it was, using a ladder to shoot from, and since I had no ladder handy, the hill seemed next best.

The shot was a behind the ear brain shot, and the elephant was downed immediately, but just to make sure, I gave him another one in the "armpit", which is supposed to be where the heart is located. Better safe than sorry. You can rest assured that my position was standing, unsupported. If there were any snakes in the hill, I didn't notice them.

When the elephant fell did he roll off of the ant hill?

No, but I still don't know what he was doing in my pajamas.

I have shot game with my 416 standing off hand kneeing sitting in a tree stand.

I would say standing off of sticks would be most likely the most accurate and comfortable for handling recoil.

I have to say I never noticed the recoil when I shot my 500lb bear from a crunched up position of the tree stand.

Drop him right there then gave him another as he was in a very good place. Drove the tractor and loader right up to him. One of the easiest bear retrievals I was ever involved in.

Don't recall the recoil of either round.

Anything except prone. Whatever is best or prudent, as the situation demands.

My best buffalo was shot at 120m with a double rifle, .500NE... actually, he's not my best in terms of score, but character... from a sitting position, elbows resting on knees. Two solids through the heart.

As low and stable as I can get based upon the terrain conditions and recoil of the rifle as well as distance to target.

quote:

Originally posted by drhall762:
As low and stable as I can get based upon the terrain conditions and recoil of the rifle as well as distance to target.

Under most circumstances I would endorse this statement, but in dealing with dangerous game I have always felt that standing on my hind legs, unsupported, was best. I once tried shooting from sticks at a lion, and it was a disaster. That said, I shot my leopard at 80 yards from a blind with my rifle resting on the edge of the shooting hole. I was mainly concerned about wounding him and getting somebody else hurt because of my error. The first shot hit him in the spine and killed him instantly.



When I shot my eland, it was at about 150 yards with my .375 H&H DR, and the most stable position I could find was prone, stretched out across a bush. I shot twice, both shots lethal.

I will shoot off of sticks 95% of the time. Standing usually, or sometimes sitting or kneeling with the sticks(if adjustable or not)adjusted accordingly. Offhand or resting on another object-5%. I never shoot prone.

Standing on sticks for anything that will stomp or bite me and sitting on sticks for long range.

Up close, just hind legs work fine. I have brained and spined elephant and hippo and stopped lion and buffalo offhand at close range.

But a rest is best if one can be had. And that includes sticks. Whoever dreamed up sticks should have been knighted and given the Nobel prize for hunting.

At longer ranges, a rest of any kind is exponentially important.

Six to eight feet behind and three feet to the left of the person pulling the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
Anything except prone. Whatever is best or prudent, as the situation demands.

My best buffalo was shot at 120m with a double rifle, .500NE... actually, he's not my best in terms of score, but character... from a sitting position, elbows resting on knees. Two solids through the heart.

Nothing wrong with prone position if the situation warrants it.

In fact, sometimes it is the only option for a long range shot.

Zoomed in on the crime scene, 150 yards from where the shot was fired, note the yellow crime-scene tape box,
centered on the place where the bullet hit the dirt:





If prone with a backpack is not in the cards, as it so rarely is,
I like to sit the best.



A long bipod and a sit is really the berries.
Leaned against the side of a tree, with my hat between my offhand and the tree if I cannot sit.
Sticks is fourth class.
Offhand at close range is first class.
However, sometimes we fail to get close ...

I once missed a cape buffalo at 150 yards, standing on the side of a termite mound.
What he was doing there, I do not know, but at least he was not in my pajamas.

I did learn something about shooting sticks on the side of a termite mound.



In hindsight, since the range was 150 yards,
and the buffalo only paused in a clearing as the dagga boys ran by:
A quick sidehill sit would have been best!

Offhand would have been better than the three spindly twigs and a rubber band posing as shooting sticks,
teetering on the side of the termite mound.
Most of us are only human.

R.I.P. Paul ...





THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

RIP, I remember your sharing this sad story when it happened. (You also shared the good buffalo story of the 510Mbogo, 450 GSC at 2654fps. Yes, we remember.)

That same year I missed a wildebeest because of shooting-stick shenanigans. In my case it was not the shooting-sticks' fault but poor communication and experience with a friend. I was hunting on a concession with a PH friend. His tracker and he are used to putting sticks up for clients, while I am used to leaning on a tree, on my own. So we spooked some wildebeest and caught up to them at a lazered 180 (meters or yards,?, his Leica was meters). I dropped to the ground next to a tree and started to lean against it while he whispered '180' and grabbed my shoulder to raise me back up. The tracker put up sticks in front of where I was going to shoot. Unfortunately, the wildebeest was already nervous and watching us. There was a branch hanging down which forced us to use a hunched-over, 3/4 height position. The crosshairs were bouncing all over the animal. I reported this and my friend, of course, cautioned me to shoot when more stable. Ten seconds later I said that I can't get more stable in this position. 200 yards should be meat-on-the-table, so I tried to time the bouncing and fired. Ominously, there was no 'thump' sound. On inspection at the scene there was no blood whatsoever. That turned out to be good news. We tracked the wildebeest 250 yards towards the next concession and verified no drop of blood. That happens in hunting. I felt stupid. My friend didn't know that I preferred leaning on a tree, and the sticks didn't help. compared to the tree-rest and sitting, the sticks definitely hurt.
The next day, though, the sticks were useful. We approached a hartebeest that we had seen across a huge grass-plain opening between forests from 700 yards. After a couple of minutes of hunched walking, with 275 yards remaining, the hartebeest stopped eating and looked in our direction across medium high 3-5-foot grass. The tracker put the sticks out. At that longer range I was still uncomfortable and mentioned it. The tracker provide a rest for my right elbow and everything settled down. A three-quarter presentation. Cross-hairs inside left-shoulder. Boom. Half-second, 'Ka-thump'. The .338" 225TTSX exploded the heart reasonably well and the hartebeest wobbled about 30 yards and collapsed.

Picture of that hartebeest's heart follows.


So the moral of the story is for friends to get used to each other's hunting styles, before the hunt. Sticks are good, but they must be used with care and need their own practice. I still like trees and instinctively grab my hat to use as a glove for the rifle and tree bark. Sitting and standing are both good. Sitting or kneeling is better.

If a tree is around it is also great cover. A person can approach an animal while keeping the tree between game and hunter. Of course, I have had many many cases where an animal spooks. I will run and advance towards the next/nearest tree between the animal and myself. I stop and set up. When the animal stops to look back, often after running only 100 yards, I squeeze. That, too, is one of my favorite positions.

Couldn't vote as every one of your options included 'sticks"...I don't shoot off sticks, I can't hit a barn door off sticks, I don't know why and don't care anymore, as I just gave up...

I prefer to shoot with a tree or rock for a brace, off hand to 200 yards suits me under most conditions and would prefer closer shots for off hand. sitting is OK, but seldom use it unless I just have to..I never bother to shoot prone as its mostly impossible most of the time, but its a good position. I've shot a lot of game off Pierre van Tonders' and Phillip Prices' shoulders..

I practice off hand shooting a lot, I figure if one can shoot off hand well, then he can shoot from about any position under most any circumstances..Its paid off for me.

Yep, when the bullet goes where intended, a .510/450-grain GSC HV at 2654 fps MV is impressive, whether it expands or not.
Gerard redesigned that bullet after this spectacular one-shot kill.
The cape buffalo never realized the bullet failed to expand.
Sectional density DOES drive expansion, at any given velocity.
For lower SD, or lower velocity, then make the nose more fragile.













The new GSC HV .510/450-gr on left, photo courtesy of 416Tanzan:



Old GSC HV .510/450-gr that produced such a spectacularly successful failure.
The expanded one next to it started off at 2835 fps MV,
recovered from the dirt berm at 100 yards:



500 Mbogo with 450-grain GSC HV:

105 grains of Benchmark plus filler >> 2654 fps and 0.75 MOA 3-shot.

115 grains of Benchmark with no filler >>> 2835 fps and 1.5 MOA 3-shot.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

The best field position I found in Africa was when the PH knelt down, leaning forward to hold sticks in front of his head. The client then knelt to the side, putting the rifle in the sticks and his right elbow firmly in the hunter's back. The PH would put in special earplugs and didn't flinch, giving a rest almost as solid as a bench at the range. I don't imagine it was comfortable for him, except if he thought of the trophy fee.

Forgive me if someone else has mentioned this without my understanding the post.

This is my shooting sticks position, the shooting sticks consisting of three sturdy saplings held together with a long strip of inner tube rubber. Ironically, that particular shot was a failure. As I fired, both the PH and I saw all four feet go up in the air, but when we got to the spot where the impala was standing.... nothing! We finally surmised that I must have clipped one of the projections from a vertebra, upending him that way, but that he rapidly recovered. I got a better one later.

The rifle is resting on the sticks just forward of the point of balance. my weight is forward, contributing to the steadiness and my left hand is gripping the fore end firmly. A very steady position.

A small herd standing and staring like these three
resulted in three quick shots, standing, unsupported, with a pause after each of the first two for the PH to point out an even better head, resulted in this.

I owed those buffalo no money!

The "Three Amigos" buffalo posed like that for my camera only after I was tagged out.
Of course, nowadays, who could afford a triple on buffalo besides Saeed?
Congratulations to xausa for being so old and living to tell about it.

BTW, I am surprised that my photos are still showing up here, as I am not going to pay the extortion to Photobucket for "third party" linking.
Photobucket has been steadily going to hell for a long time.
May they eventually burn themselves.

What is an alternative to Photobucket?

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

That was in 1972 in Tanzania. I once calculated what those three weeks in the Selous would cost today and it was astronomical. I'm just glad I was able to do it when I did. I also scored on lion, leopard, two elephants, greater kudu and sable on that trip.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
That was in 1972 in Tanzania. I once calculated what those three weeks in the Selous would cost today and it was astronomical. I'm just glad I was able to do it when I did. I also scored on lion, leopard, two elephants, greater kudu and sable on that trip.

Did you film your hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
[Did you film your hunt?

No, I had a photographer friend along for the trip and he shot some wonderful stills, but digital photography was far in the future and film equipment was too cumbersome. Unfortunately, either he or the lab lost one of the rolls of film depicting a unique form of elephant shooting which I dearly wish had been preserved.

Ive seen some really nice bulls and other game lost with PHs and hunters screwing with sticks at ranges ridiculasly short..If one cannot shoot a buff or a large animal at 50 to 75 yards or even a 100 off hand then he really needs to improve his shooting or take up ping pong..In some cases Ive seen sticks become a habit, and the hunters wouldn't think of not using them..I believe its encombent on a hunter to be able to shoot offhand, if not, he will miss some of his best trophy opertunities as the big boys are smarter than the average duck and can disappear forever in a heartbeat...How many times Ive had to snap shoot and in fact that included my largest Buffalo, Kudu, Croc, a beautiful Val Reebok, and a number of targets of opertunity that presented themselves for a second...

Also, in my case, I can't seem to hit squat off sticks and Ive worked on that unsuccessfully over the years, but Pierre van Tonder, Phillip Price, the van Heerdens, and a couple of others don't allow me sticks. Im sure Im in the minority on this subject and Ive no problem with that..just the other side of the coin..

I'm a very good offhand rifleman out to 200 yards which is my max range with any rifle in any caliber. The bigger the bore the shorter the max range though. That skill came from thousands of rounds in practice and competition. I shoot offhand and fast. Sticks are a crutch for those who don't want to or can't develop the basic skills.There is no substitute for "trigger time" Generally I like to get as close to game as possible, shoot em offhand and shoot em again and again till they are dead.

Robgunbuilder,
Perfect!! I totally agree..and I like to practice with irons as well as scopes, one of the reasons I like lower power scopes like the 3X Leupold, try shooting a 10X or 7X at 100 yards fast, it can be done with enough practice probably, but I definitely do better off hand with lower powder, grabbing at a floating cross hair is disturbing at best!

Rob and Ray,

You are the men!
After 100 yards I look for a tree. I just don't get much shooting opportunity between annual hunts these days.

Put up 12 inch paper plates at various distances and when you can put 6/6 on the plate from any position that's your max range! No shame in shooting off of a tree. It's way better than stupid sticks! The point is there is no substitute for trigger time! The more you have the better you shoot. Period!

The most important element of shooting off hand or just hunting is trigger pull, not a slow forever sleepy pull, better a controlled jerk in my case..The longer you hold a rifle the more ya wiggle, snap shooting off hand is what I do more or less, simply because the faster I can shoot accurately the better chance I have of making the kill before it disappears and the real trophies got big being smart and quick to move...not to mention it really adds to the hunting experience. To roll a big trophy bull elk or Cape Buffalo in a summersault while he is moving nine-0 at close to medium range is the ultimate experience IMO..or shooting one off the end of your gun barrel coming to kick your ass. You will be glad you took the time to be prepared for that, and so will your staff and PH..

Ray- totally agree! Shooting fast puts meat on the ground! You shoot a "good enough" sight picture. Never perfect but good enough and I pull through my trigger. No waiting either to see the result of the shot. You rack in round 2 or 3 and fire st the game moving away as quickly as possible.

Yes sir stop shooting when 4 ft. are sticking up!

I love GS Customs bullets on game..They are as good as it gets, along with Woodleighs and Northforks, and Noslers....Most of todays bullets work just fine, they have made great inroads to perfect bullet expansion..To top that off the old Remington Corelokt and Win PP are still excellent bullets..

Over the years and many investigations, Ive found almost all bullet failures are human error, not caliber, not bullet failure, and the guilty dog barks the loudest.

Ive also observed 95 or more percent of failed bullets were recovered bullets which confuses this issue. I have only had two bullet failures since the mid 1950s. that's a pretty good track record for the bullet industry.