Brother Ron,

Just wanted to say hi. BTW Great Uncle Ray said it best "There all just toys to please us, otherwise we would just hunt the world with a 375". Well something like that. What a great statement from a 416 man. I like the idea of hunting the world no matter what the toy. I think this is a great thread thanks guys.

Ray,
Thanks for restating my point, which is just the obvious.

Now I revel in the personal characterization of me as "bad."

Yeah, I BAD.

LV Eric, long lost brother,
I see the point. Just having some fun with the HORSE FEATHERS routine. It worked.

Bro Ron,
Yeah, you be bad!!

Ray, on a near separated case I agree that the tapered design will extract better. But a separated case is more likely with the tapered design too, due to excessive case stretch.

I have extracted 308's that came out in 2 pieces. They held together just long enough to break as they ejected, and the 308 has not much taper. The secret seems to be to keep pressure reasonable, then almost anything can be extracted.

I like the horse feathers routein

Ray, Jim, Eric, Alf,
I have seen the light! Now you have me convinced! I have got to have a 400 H&H! Let me know when the reamer, dies, and properly headstamped brass are ready. I suppose the chamber and cartridge specs would be a good place to start. Sounds like a CZ rebarrel job for me, 5 in the magazine and one up the spout. Or maybe my Pre-64 M70, with 4 in the magazine and one up the funnel.

Bloody good show, suckering me into hankering after another cartridge!

May I pass on the 465 H&H?

It really does seem like they are re-inventing the wheel, visa-vis the 416 Rem. but I guess there's nothing wrong with that.

[ 12-10-2002, 19:57: Message edited by: Kboom ]

500,
I suppose it depends on who reloads the ammo and how they set the neck, not likely I will have a seperated case anyway, soooo it probably makes little difference wheather a case has a belt or doesn't have a belt IMO...

I think some get hung up on this belt thing and on case design in general and it is mostly the real experts who get caught up in the technology of gundom, ala Jack Belk, who am plumb et up with technical ca-ca..I can say that as he is my friend and neighbor, but I think I will go lock the doors anyway..

No I won't, he hurt his neck yesterday and has been whining all day, going to a sawbones, in fact I may just go kick his skinny butt while he's hurting and stiff....then again maybe not as I'm old and I'm always hurt'en and never stiff. Life is like that.

Brother Ron,

I'm glad to see that you have seen the light. I'll call Holland tomarrow and commission a couple for us, so we can use them on our upcomming trip. Please email me your LOP so it will fit you perfect. Would you like your initals engraved in it?

Brother Eric

Assuming one likes tapered cases, what does the 400 H&H achieve that the 404 Jeffery does not?

Assuming one does not like tapered cases, what does the 400 H&H achieve that the 416 remington does not?

Assuming one does not like tapered cases or belts, what does the 400 H&H achieve that the 416 rigby does not?

There is only one answer that will satisfy all questions: MARKETING HYPE.

500grains,

So what is wrong with marketing hype? You don't actually believe that you are the only AR reader who can detect such and filter accordingly -- on second thought considering what you have posted, perhaps you do.

So to respond to your queries:

1. 400 H&H and .404 Jeff

Membership in a current family of cartridges (.375, .400 and .465 ) with the H&H headstamp;

2. .400 H&H and .416 Remington

Lower pressure; and

3. .400 H&H and .416 Rigby

Smaller physical envelope of the cartridge (one more round in the magazine, etc.).

jim dodd

I want a .465 H&H.

Since it sounds so cool.

To see the reaction to, "it's a .465 H&H".

The attention only this will give.

I must have a .465 H&H.

Jim,

I hope I have not been criticizing your creation. If you like the cartridges, then fine. But I am not at all convinced that they are in any way an advantage to current offerings, hence my conclusion (which many others appear to agree with) that the new cartridges are marketing hype.

Jim,

Please, just get us the case specs. Let's put a stake in the heart of this thread (sorry, meant vampire).

Still looking for the 400HH,
Roger QSL

I think there is a great advantage to these new cartridges, they are cool. We need less utilitarian cartridges and more that are oozing with cool facter like long sloping shoulders and weird bullet diameters and have H&H stamped on the bottom and no one else at the range has them and ...

Jim,
Well I am going to have to leave you at 500's mercy, he had to bring up the 404 and I have painted myself into a corner with that one, I just cannot turn my back on such and old friend...

500,
that was a low down, high smell'en trick to come up with!

Long lost brother Eric,
Just make that a 14" pull to the Silver's pad, for me, with 3/16" cast off at mid comb, and the initials are: RAB. On the grip cap please.

A pair of 400 H&H magnum Mausers from H&H, eh? Sounds like a good cartridge/rifle combo for anything that walks the earth.

Why didn't they offer this thing sooner? I should've had one of those long ago.

Everybody and his brother ought to have one of those.

500grains,

I am not the originator of the .400 H&H, and my liking of it is based on John (Pondoro) Taylor's description of the effectiveness and efficiency of the .450/.400 double gun cartridge, which shoots the same bullets as Holland is using in their .400 H&H.

An interesting sidelight is the thread on the Gunsmithing forum now on the Misfires with the .404 Jeff.

Ray, I don't have a .404, and if I had one I would probably just continue to use it. Although I would still need to come up with my next African Hunter feature article, and Ganyana has already "done" the .404.

jim

Kboom, it is 0.411 so there is only 0.005" difference which is precisley why we need this cartridge and NOW!

Brother Ron,

The order has been placed. I went ahead and ordered an extra one for our PH.

Long lost brother Eric,
Let me know when it is ready. Please try to restrain the bloody H&H goons from putting a bunch of gold inlay all over everything. Not necessary, and a bit gauche for my tastes. Thanks.

500,
Bringing the 404 into the thread...I can't argue the thread anymore without turning my back on the greatest big bore in the world....just can't do it. You cheated me with reality.

I saw that ca ca on the 404 misfiring and it does not surprise me as there is a diversity in chambers with the older English and german guns, but it is an easy reloading fix...fireform the case. It was a factory ammo problem, not the caliber....any round of any caliber is prone to do that under the circumstances...the europeans just ran the reamer in until it looked good then backed out and some chambers vari by a bunch..should take a cast of the older guns. There is also a varity of specs out there...Ruger ran into this problem and got the wrong reamers and had to discontinue production of the caliber.

500,
Bringing the 404 into the thread...I can't argue the thread anymore without turning my back on the greatest big bore in the world....just can't do it. You cheated me with reality.

I saw that ca ca on the 404 misfiring and it does not surprise me as there is a diversity in chambers with the older English and german guns, but it is an easy reloading fix...fireform the case. It was a factory ammo problem, not the caliber....any round of any caliber is prone to do that under the circumstances...the Europeans just ran the reamer in until it looked good then backed out and some chambers vari by a bunch..should take a cast of the older guns. There is also a varity of specs out there...Ruger ran into this problem and got the wrong reamers and had to discontinue production of the caliber. I have seen the same in 416 Rigbys, 10.75 x68 and other older guns of yesteryear...

Ray, I see what you mean about the .404.

I would have thought the folks at Ruger could figure it out, but I guess not. Same with the guys at Hornady. They can't get more than 2250 fps out of the 458 lott. It amazes me that gunsmiths all over the country can obtain the right 404 reamer but Ruger can't, and handloaders all over the country can get 2350 fps from the lott but Hornady can't.

It kind of shakes a guy's confidence in the major name manufacturers.

We're dealing with "BEAN COUNTERS" 500, they wouldn't know a 404 Jefferys from a Marlin Crackshot thingamajig....they are computer whizzes with money on the brain...Why else would folks be shooting plastic stocked rifles and SS metal guns that look like toasters and other kitchen comodities...oh and add car bumbers.

HunterJim:

Jim,

It's been awhile sinse the last post regarding the 400HH.

Has anything happened?

Still very interested in the development of the round.

What, where, or how do I get some info from HH.

Roger QSL

Roger,

Holland will be at the SCI convention in Reno January 29 to Feb 1, and their prototype rifles will be there too.

I am hoping to have a timeline from them for the introduction of the .400 H&H and the .465 H&H.

jim

Jim,

Will be waiting for your report.
Thanks,

Roger QSL