Hi folks,

I'm finally getting around to working up some loads for a couple of .404 J's. I've been able to find load info for my supply of 400gr Woodleigh solids but have had much less luck for the 400 gr Swift A-Frames or the 400 gr Hornad DGXs. Searched on AR and found a load for the Swifts, but expect to have a problem finding VihtaVuoti N160 around here.

Thanks,
Dean

I found H4350 (ADI 2209) to be very effective in my 404 with 84gn giving me exact same poi for the 400gn Woodleigh soft and RWS solid, at 2335fps. I cant see that this would not be a load you could use as a base for the Hornady DGX by starting at about 76gn for 2010fps as I did.I tried Varget (ADI 2208) 74gn to 77gn for 2182 - 2259fps with the Woodleigh but the accuracy was not up to the 4350 nor the lack of pressure signs as I went past the 2300fps mark. I cant see that the same powders wouldn't be as effective with the Swift as well.

Von Gruff.

I concur with Von Gruff on the slower powders performing better with the 404J. My load for my Mauser is 85grs IMR4831 which is a bit slower than AR2209. This is an accurate load doing 2100fps with 400gr RWS solids and has easily taken some big Asiatic buffalo.
I stopped at this level as I'm up to factory ammo POI with the iron sights. My rifle has a lot of freebore and shows no pressure signs with this load so could be boosted up to higher velocity if I had need for this.

I did try out other faster burners but like Von Gruff found, they did not do as well as the slower burners.

The maximum published recommended load for AR2209 (H or IMR4350 equivalent) is 80.0grs for 2100 fps which is pretty conservative but is the old specs for the 404J. IMO this conservative approach is what has made the 404J such a timeless workhorse on DG and a pleasure to use in a reasonable light gun.

Thanks for hte info. I haven't been able to find any published data for the .404 J. Where have you found it?

Dean

Norma, Barnes, and A-square have published load data on the 404 Jeffery, not sure about others.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Thanks for hte info. I haven't been able to find any published data for the .404 J. Where have you found it?

Dean

Australian Defence Industries (ADI) the makers of an excellent range of powders for pistol, shotgun and rifles (AR range) publish a booklet with extensive load data for many cartridges including the 404J. They also publish a good powder equivalent chart to cross reference their powders with many other manufacturers product.

Google ADI they have a copy of their reloading booklet on their website for downloading.

I have used 72 gr of IMR 4064 and a woodleigh 400 which yielded 2185fps in my CZ550. worked on a buffalo.
How much velocity are you looking for, the original load, 2150 fps, or something approaching the 416 rigby?
What is your load for woodleighs?

404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr Bell Brass Federal 215 Hodgdon H4350 82 / 2200 fps Source: Woodleigh

CALIBER BULLET BRASS PRIMER POWDER LOAD



404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 450 gr SN Bell Brass Federal 215 Hodgdon H4831 SC 87 / 2160 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 450 gr SN Bell Brass Federal 215 Reloader 22 87 / 2125 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 450 gr SN Bell Brass CCI 250 Hodgdon H4350 82 / 2160 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 450 gr SN Bell Brass Federal 215 ADI 2213 SC 87 / 2160 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 450 gr SN Bell Brass CCI 250 ADI 2209 82 / 2160 fps

404 JEFFERY Northfork IMR-4831 95 / 2,653 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr Bell Brass Federal 215 Hodgdon H4350 82 / 2200 fps

404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 350 gr Bell Brass IMR 4064 80 / 2500 Fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 350 gr Bell Brass Hodgdon H4350 80 / 2500 Fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 350 gr Bell Brass IMR 4350 80 /
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 350 gr Bell Brass Hodgdon Varget 80 / 2500 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 350 gr Bell Brass 75

404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr Bell Brass CCI 250 IMR 4064 71 / ?
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr RWS IMR 4831 93 / 2450 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr Norma/RWS Federal 215 RL-15 75 / 2262 fps
404 JEFFERY IMR 3031 63 / 2100 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr Kynoch Federal 215 IMR 4831 93 / 2280 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr Norma IMR 4320 80 / 2300 fps
404 JEFFERY NorthFork 380 gr IMR-4831 83 gr
404 JEFFERY Barnes 400 gr SOL RL-19 & IMR-4831 84 gr
404 JEFFERY Barnes 400 gr TSX FB Norma Federal 215M IMR-4320 68.5 / 2091 fps
404 JEFFERY Barnes 400 gr TSX FB Norma Federal 215M IMR-4064 67 / 2100 fps
404 JEFFERY Barnes 400 gr TSX FB Norma Federal 215M RL-15 68 / 2107 fps
404 JEFFERY Barnes 400 gr BND SLD Norma Federal 215M Accurate 4064 73 / 2277 fps

404 JEFFERY Hawk 300 gr Soft Point Norma CCI 250 AA 2520 89 / 2,460 fps
404 JEFFERY Hawk 300 gr Soft Point Norma CCI 250 IMR-4064 91 / 2,698 fps
404 JEFFERY Hawk 300 gr Soft Point Norma CCI 250 RL-15 91 / 2,665 fps
404 JEFFERY Hawk 350 gr Soft Point Norma CCI 250 RL-15 88 / 2,622 fps
404 JEFFERY Hawk 350 gr Soft Point Norma CCI 250 IMR-3031 79 / 2,516 fps
404 JEFFERY Hawk 350 gr Soft Point Norma CCI 250 IMR-4895 84 / 2,544 fps
404 JEFFERY Swift 400 gr A-Frame Norma CCI 250 IMR-4064 84 / 2,506 fps
404 JEFFERY Swift 400 gr A-Frame Norma CCI 250 IMR-4895 83 / 2,495 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr RN SP Norma CCI 250 IMR-4064 84 / 2,416 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr RN SP Norma CCI 250 IMR-3031 77 / 2,382 fps
404 JEFFERY Woodleigh 400 gr RN SP Norma CCI 250 IMR-4895 83 / 2,480 fps


404 JEFFERY 380-400 gr RL-19 & IMR-4831
404 JEFFERY 300-350 gr REM MAG RL-15 IMR-4064 VV150

You are not going to find a lot fo published data on the 404J right now. Since Hornady has bullets, I expect a pretty decent load evaluation coming sooner than later. I have worked w/ most of the bullet available in the last 3yrs. I need to get some Hornadys now that they are readily available.
I have found no better powders for 380gr-400gr bullets than IMR4831, RL19 or VV160. With the 380grNFs, sub moa groups @ 2250fps are pretty easily done. Pretty much the same for 400gr Woodleigh, just 50fps slower. I don't load them too hot so data is interchangeable between the two bullets.

In my Kreiger barreled Model 70 with VihtaVuori N550:

NorthFork 380 grain softpoint, 86 grains N550, Fed 215 primer, 2400 fps.

Barnes 400 grain TSX, 81,5 grains N550, Fed 215 primer, 2260 fps.

These aren't computer extrapolated loads, but chronographed loads in my 404 Jeffery. They ought to work in the real world.

Hornady 404 Jeffery load info:

Folks,

I ahve a questions posted re a 404J a couple of posts earlier. I would really appreciate you more experienced gentlemen helping me out.

Regards

Ess

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:

How much velocity are you looking for, the original load, 2150 fps, or something approaching the 416 rigby?
What is your load for woodleighs?

I've not had a lot of time for AR lately so am late getting back to my own thread. Thanks for the loads every one.

As for the questions from TerryR, I'm not sure and none yet. I have a few boxes of RWS solids and was going to start by getting a hand loaded soft to have a similar POI. In the longer term, I'll have to make a judgement call based on my wife's ability to handle recoil. She has finally decided that a cape buff is in her future and has latched on to the better of my 2 .404J's (to be fair, it does fit her better than me). If she can learn to handle the RWS loads, that is the power level we'll stay with. Otherwise we'll both go with the original loads. I'm not about to try to keep track of 2 different hand loads for both of us.

Dean

I haven't chronographed this load but one of the forum members gave this load and I have used it.

400 gr. Swift A-Frame - 94 grs. H4831SC - BELL brass - FED215

I didn't have any signs of excessive pressure, the load shot MOA and the recoil was moderate.

Wink,

Do you have an N-550 load that gives about 2200 fps? Mon Dieu only gives you so many heartbeats, and so many fps to use in a lifetime. You should not waste so many fps turning your 404J into a 404 Magnum .

Are you using a CZ for your misadventures??

Is the consensus of my esteemed colleagues that the 404J does better with slower burning powders?

Someone (my half-brother Rip) published a table of velocities for 400 grain bullets using Varget. That seems attractive because (I have eight pounds or more of it) because of the temperature insensitivity.

Has anyone else tried Varget or RL-15, and did I look right past it? The foam wads do work well.

RIP should chime in here as he seems to have done much work on load data.

I have a 404 Jeffery being built as we speak and my goal is 2400 fps with 380-400 grain bullets. I have several powders in mind and Varget would be at the top of the list to try. Varget would fall into the medium burn rate vs other powders I have used...

I see no reason to use wads with the selection of powders today...

Yep,
I need nothing other than Varget Extreme Hodgdon powder for the 404 Jeffery.

These are moderate-pressure, extremely accurate loads, velocities for a 24" barrel of 1:10" twist by McGowen:

400-grainers Woodleigh RNSP with 81.0 grains Varget: 2401 fps @ 50,000 psi

380-grain North Fork FP&SP with 83.0 grains Varget: 2525 fps

340-grain North Fork SP with 87.6 grains Varget: 2706 fps at 54 degrees F ... good accuracy,
0.557" for three shots at 100 yards
2.126" for three shots at 300 yards

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Wink,

Do you have an N-550 load that gives about 2200 fps? Mon Dieu only gives you so many heartbeats, and so many fps to use in a lifetime. You should not waste so many fps turning your 404J into a 404 Magnum .

Are you using a CZ for your misadventures??

It's a Winchester Model 70 rebarreled to 404J. As for 2200fps, the 400 grain TSX bullet load I mention is close. If you mean for the 380 grain NorthFork, try a grain less and see if it comes out where you want. I'm using Norma brass and your barrel length and mileage may vary and all that stuff applies.

quote:

I see no reason to use wads with the selection of powders today...

Ah, grasshopper, learn fast or become trout bait. There are two wonderfully safe wads available:

1. Dacron, it looks the same coming out as it did going in. the only other down side is that you have to weigh each wad.
2. Non flame retardant gray open cell foam. Punch it out of sheets of foam. Buffalo Bore carries the correct style of punch.

Why use a wad at all.? Here is one small example; you are shooting a 416 Rigby with 98 to 100 grains of H-4831, long or short cut. You note that the recoil is bothersome. Why not multiply the original cordite loading of 70 (or 72) grain by 1.19 to get the equivalent in today's RL-15/N 203B. Pour the powder in; hmmmmmm, still lots of room left, what to do? Yep put in a wad to keep the powder charge in a tight wad, and no sloshy sloshy. Bang Bang, the gun fires safely and accurately. The only thing you are missing is some real recoil. The recoil formula takes into account the total # of grains of powder.

Hey RIP,

You looked better in "Pale Rider", but anything with horses, guns and bad guys to shoot is always good. Thanks for the loads, coming soon to a cartridge near you. Mike Brady tells me the new McGowan barrel facility up by Kalispell is very impressive. We should meet there some summer. The Varget is on me!

quote:

I have my doubts about longevity.

I am afraid your doubts are real.

Lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Is the consensus of my esteemed colleagues that the 404J does better with slower burning powders?

Someone (my half-brother Rip) published a table of velocities for 400 grain bullets using Varget. That seems attractive because (I have eight pounds or more of it) because of the temperature insensitivity.

Has anyone else tried Varget or RL-15, and did I look right past it? The foam wads do work well.

Varget woked great w/ the 340grNF or 350grWoodleigh. Accuracy was better w/ the 380gr-400gr bullets @ 2200fps using RL19 or IMR4831 for me though.

Thanks Fred,

I will go with Varget with the lighter bullets, and do a side by side with the 380s and 400s of the world. I think RIP made a very good twist rate choice with his barrel. Still, I have to answer the needs of the majority...

The RL-19/N-204 sounds good. Perhaps some H-4350 to try as well.

LD

I played a bit w/ some VV160, looked promising w/ the heavier bullets as well. Very uniform, good vel.