Getting great advice here, stepping through the process to the point where I am trying to choose a bullet for loading (and then have to actually FIND them to buy, along with the powder...a real challenge!)

Anyway, to frame the question, this will be for NA game (small to large), and if I got lucky, plainsgame, but that's a lottery dream at this point.

Want to be able to use near to very far. No DGame on either continent, I'll probably do something different for that, unless there is one load suggested for 50-450 yards you use.

Looking at 260 accubond, 250 ttsx, and 250 gmx as choices due to good BC's, but am open to other bullets that will work to LR. Was pretty certain on the accubond until researching this on these forums and someone mentioned it opening up and breaking up and making a real mess on several plains game animals, I think. I read similar on other boards as well, especially if bone was hit.

One of the things I liked about my old 375 was the very few sheep/goats I shot, simply killed with a hole on either side..one you could eat right up to. Less meat loss than with my 270. I loved that!

On the otherhand, I am concerned that the TTSX or GMX might be too hard at the 450ish yard range to open at all at H&H velocities. Ballistics suggest if they leave at 2800 fps, they will be in the 1900's at 450. I may get little or no expansion, but maybe it's not needed on this game when it starts at .375...like using a solid on Impala? Dunno, not so sure on that. I don't have enough experience with hunting with the 375 to tell.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Someone has Horn 375/275g for sale on ARbay. Certainly worth a try.
IF, I could find someone to swage them to .366, I 'd load up .

Yeah, it's amazing how hard it is to find stuff right now. I did finally locate TTSX's, Accubonds and GMX's. I just need to make a quick decision on which to favor as the starting point and order.

Powder, on the other hand, I have no solution for as of yet. I saw some at the last gunshow I went to but did not know how difficult it is to buy, so passed on it. Kicking myself now as I can't find anything at all. Same with primers. Hoping after the season/Christmas rush, some stuff comes available. I just need a pound and maybe 500 magnum primers right now, but even that is impossible at the moment. I even thought to go 4 hours to the Dallas Safari Show this weekend to see if I can find anything.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, I may try and grab those for practice stuff, hopefully I can make a decision or get some advice so I can start ordering here soon...may just take the plunge and start with Accubonds...

Don't discount the possibility of using a 235 grain bullet. For NA game (excluding the great bears), a 235 is certainly sufficient. In particular, lighter bullets from Barnes (TSX or TTSX) and other brands like it are noted for lighter bullets being able to perform like heavier ones since they hardly lose any weight at impact. The lighter bullet will also allow higher velocity and possibly better down range trajectory.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:
Don't discount the possibility of using a 235 grain bullet. For NA game (excluding the great bears), a 235 is certainly sufficient. In particular, lighter bullets from Barnes (TSX or TTSX) and other brands like it are noted for lighter bullets being able to perform like heavier ones since they hardly lose any weight at impact. The lighter bullet will also allow higher velocity and possibly better down range trajectory.

Actually at least in the case of the Barnes 235, the BC is so poor that the 270 outperforms the 235's at ranges over 300 yards.
Haven't used them on game yet but I am in the process of switching to the 250TTSX because of the superior BC.

Good point Blacktailer.
If Chad T plans to hunt black bear, deer, elk, or moose at longer range the heavier bullet would be preferential.
As an added note, very few hunters can connect in the primary kill zone of medium or small game at yardage over 300 yards.

Excellent points and suggestions! I am definitely looking to try and get one bullet sorted for everything non-Dangerous, under all circumstances. I think my ideal bullet would be a 270 grainer with with a very high BC. The 260 accubond is very close to that ideal, but my only concern is how it performs. I am just not sure what to expect, or maybe even what to want, if that makes sense. Does it matter if it does not open on deer sized game as it is already rather large? If not, then a GMX or TTSX would probably be better, but not sure. Maybe they would act like solids at range, which would seem a bad idea on Elk or whatever.

I guess what I would like is for it to drill all the way through....but a nice 50 caliber sized hole is probably good, with little meat destruction. I don't want a baseball sized exit with bloodshot meat all the way through if that makes sense. My experience in the past, extremely limited, was just a nice 50 cal sized exit, with good meat all the way up to it. That seems a good goal, but maybe it's not possible under all conditions.

-
I would expect a TTSX to open up all the way down to 1900fps. Those little blue tips actually make expansion easier than the TSX hollow points. So for non-dangerous game out to 450 yards, you've got the 250 grain TTSX.

If you want more than that, you might need to drop down to a 338WM with the 225 grain TTSX and its 0.514 BC., sighted in 2" high at 100 and 2838fps. It will only drop -19" at 400 yards, and maintain 2500ftlbs and 2242fps. For that matter, at 450 yards it will still be going 2173fps and have 2360 ftlbs. There's not an eland or a moose that can withstand that. But if you want .375" then the TTSX sets a bar that will cover 50yards to 450 yards.

That 250 TTSX is definitely high on my list. I have actually charted it, the GMX and the Accubond on my ballistics program to get some idea on how they could compare. The GMX and TTSX going 2800 shoot plenty flat out to 500 if need be. The Accubond at 2750 is exactly equal. So all three will work in that regard, as long as they will reliably open. All three hit 500 yards with 1900 FPS, assuming 60 degree temperatures and 2500ft elevation.

So ballistically, I am happy with all three. They all cost about the same, they are all equally difficult for me to find at the moment

The question is basically on their individual behavior...which is the hardest and which the softest? I like two holes, personally. I like a big enough exit, but with as little 'collateral' meat damage as is necessary.

I have some concerns on the Accubond being too destructive..though I found in a post today that the construction has changed over the years so some of the things I have been reading may not apply. Otherwise, it's my favorite due to it's lower velocity.

So for the GMX and the TTSX, which is the 'softer' bullet? I have heard some complaints about the TTSX not opening, but maybe that only applied to the TSX? Others say the GMX is even harder....sounds like you are suggesting the TTSX is a little softer than the TSX and is the one to try first.

Chad, I've used TTSX, TSX, and Accubonds in my 375 AI's and other guns - they all are very good hunting bullets. I use the one that is most accurate in that particular gun. AIU

Thanks for the reply, your experience is probably what I am looking for. Basically, new gun, unfired and I am trying to choose where to start. If I get sufficient accuracy and velocity, I'll just stick with it, but I need to choose which is most likely going to be the one to keep, and only change if I can't get decent accuracy from this rifle.

I liked the 260 accubond at first, but am now concerned it will tear up meat more than I would like in deer sized game etc. I do like two holes and based on everyone's positive experience with the 270 g tsx, am thinking maybe the 250 TTSX would be a better choice than the accubond. Everything I am reading suggests the GMX is too hard for this general of a use.

What is your experience...is the 260 pretty soft and therefore 'devastating'? Is the TTSX, on the other hand, too hard? Or are they so close, it's slipping hairs?

To put it in perspective, I would love a nice quarter sized hole coming out or so...one I can eat up to. Some expansion would be good, but massive bloodshot meat (like I have experienced in some bullets from my 270) I would like to avoid. So how would you characterize these bullets in your experience?

Thanks!

First job is to get the meat.
The amount of bloodshot meat may depend on impact velocity, which also relates to distance. If dangerous game will be in the mix, I'd go with the TTSX since physically, it can't turn inside out.

Chad,

I have used some of those bullets.

These days I am loading bullets from Cutting Edge Bullets. I like the 230gr Long Range Raptor with Tip and the 235gr ESP Raptor-tipped. I have had nothing but good results with them. I am interested in the copper Raptors and plan to load them within the next two months.

Don't know what part of Texas you are in. I am in Corpus Christi and if I may be of any assistance send a pm and we'll go from there.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Chad T:
Thanks for the reply, your experience is probably what I am looking for. Basically, new gun, unfired and I am trying to choose where to start. If I get sufficient accuracy and velocity, I'll just stick with it, but I need to choose which is most likely going to be the one to keep, and only change if I can't get decent accuracy from this rifle.

I liked the 260 accubond at first, but am now concerned it will tear up meat more than I would like in deer sized game etc. I do like two holes and based on everyone's positive experience with the 270 g tsx, am thinking maybe the 250 TTSX would be a better choice than the accubond. Everything I am reading suggests the GMX is too hard for this general of a use.

What is your experience...is the 260 pretty soft and therefore 'devastating'? Is the TTSX, on the other hand, too hard? Or are they so close, it's slipping hairs?

To put it in perspective, I would love a nice quarter sized hole coming out or so...one I can eat up to. Some expansion would be good, but massive bloodshot meat (like I have experienced in some bullets from my 270) I would like to avoid. So how would you characterize these bullets in your experience?

Thanks!

Chad, I suggest starting with 250 TTSX, because it tends to be the most accurate bullet in my two 375's. When placed into the boiler room it works very well and it's a great penetrator. Accubonds are - on average - not as accurate, but guns vary. Good luck. Regards, AIU

ChadT,

We offer a very wide window of performance with our HV range of bullets. Impacts down to 1600fps will give around a double caliber mushroom and, should you shoot something at close range, the bullet forms the wound channel, then the petals come off and the shaft shoots through. Meat wastage is held to a minimum.

We shot a springbok with a 375H&H and the 265gr HV as an experiment. The animal weighed 32lbs with innards, head, hooves and skin removed. The shot was at about 100 paces downhill. Here is the result.

Entrance high on the left shoulder:



Inside the chest cavity:



Exit low on left shoulder.



On the other side of the coin, very large antelope can be shot with the same combination:


See the full story here.

The eland below was shot at 320 metres.



We also have a 200gr HV bullet and this is what is done with it:


http://www.gsgroup.co.za/rick2.html


http://www.gsgroup.co.za/galecp.html

Check availability with Gina.

Definitely! And hopefully, it's not all hamburgered! I have the impression that the TTSX is going to expand less on medium game than the Accubond, which is what I want. I don't think much expansion is necessary, or maybe even preferable in this case. I don't want it to pencil through, necessarily, but nor do I want a softball sized hole and half the meat bloodshot....had this happen on a close shot with my 270 once..what a mess, what a waste!

So though no DG is on the menu at this time, sounds like the TTSX moves to top of the list just now. Coincidentally, looks like they are the easiest for me to find right now too. Now if only I can find some RL15 and some primers....RL17, no problem...even found some 4064...but it looks like RL15 is the place to start...and I prefer to only do this once!

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
First job is to get the meat.
The amount of bloodshot meat may depend on impact velocity, which also relates to distance. If dangerous game will be in the mix, I'd go with the TTSX since physically, it can't turn inside out.

Its a hunting bullet so dont get to tied up with BC that changes with air temp, altitude etc etc and depends on if the manufactuer used say a G1 or G7 model. If you are not shooting past 400mts BC is a waste of time in a hunting bullet IMHO.

You need to find a bullet that shoots in your rifle. A bullet can have the best BC on paper- in the world and not shoot worth a cent and not perform on game. Sectional Density would be more important in my view, but bullet still has to work. I like the mono metals were possible.

Any way get some of what you think will work and see if they shoot in your rifle.

I would go for Barnes TSX or some of Gerard bullets. They have an excellent reputation.

Yeah, looks like this will be a good starting place. I can find TTSX's easier at this moment than Accubonds, course that could change by the end of the weekend! Since I have to start somewhere, I'll start there and then try something else if they fail.

Anyone know where to get any RL15 and mag primers? I may just break down and pay the hazmat so I can get started. Can't find any local at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:



Chad, I suggest starting with 250 TTSX, because it tends to be the most accurate bullet in my two 375's. When placed into the boiler room it works very well and it's a great penetrator. Accubonds are - on average - not as accurate, but guns vary. Good luck. Regards, AIU

Chad,

As good as RL15 may be, you should give H335 a try if available

I was turned on to this powder by a friend. It works fantastic in everything from 308 to 600Overkill and wonderful in 375H&H.

Andy

I have found RL 17 to offer the highest velocity at safe pressures in the 375 H&H and definitely prefer it to RL 15. Accuracy has also been outstanding with North Fork solids and softs.

I am fond of Accubonds.

If you are looking for RL-15 good luck. I suggest that you find Norma 203B. RL-15 is just another batch of 203B that Alliant repackaged.

Now that Norma is using Western to distribute it's powders on this side of the pond, Alliant is trying to come up with something to replace it.
You will find less change in batches of Norma 203B.

Great stuff, looks like this is becoming a powder thread for 375, perfect timing.

Okay so locally, I can get RL 17 and IMR 4064. That's about it as far as powders that I see in my load manuals. And I say that, but I actually don't have any loads for RL 17, just keep hearing people talk about it. Anybody can point me to somewhere I can find some good data? Wanna push that 250 to about 2800 out of a 25 inch barrel. Again, RL17 I can get if I hurry, but I did not take it because I did not know what to do with it.

On the Norma 203-b, would one just use RL 15 load data? I can order the Norma, also found Win 760, which I have found noted in a lot of manuals.

Which other powders are top stuff for pushing that TTSX to 2800 or so?

On R-17, or any powder, there is no guarantee that any or all of those bullets will clock 2800fps in your rifle.

That being said, you will probably end up with a full or compressed load of Rel-17 somewhere around or beyond 80 grains. The 375 H&H can probably use as much R17 powder as you can fit in. Reloder 17 has its retardant impregnated throughtout the kernals so it MIGHT prove to have a better storage life than some powders if heavily compressed, but I would limit myself to lightly compressed loads for a dangerous game rifle. ("Heavily compressed" means having to work hard to seat the bullet to the desired depth, risking back movement or bulging brass. "Lightly compressed" has a little crackle sound as the bullet gets in position, but one could still push the bullet deeper.)

Chad,
Yes you can. Just as any reload back off 5-10% and approach the best load for your rifle.

Rusty,

Checked out Norma's loads for 203b. They are pretty different from the RL15 loads. Are you using this powder currently in a 375?

I use 203B in everything from 257 Roberts to 450/400 3 Inch Nitro Express. Please make note of test barrel length in published material.

Dragging up my 375 H&H load in QuickLoad
260 grain Accubond 56 grains 203B, 26 inch barrel=2261 FPS
260 grain Accubond 56 grains RL-15 26 inch barrel=2270 FPS

Hope this helps!

I also checked Norma's published load with a 300 grain Partition.
203B 26 inch barrel= 2491
RL-15 26 inch barrel= 2503

Norma load says that 56 grains 26 inch barrel=2411.

Yeah, okay, I was looking at Norma's posted data online and then comparing it to the bullet makers numbers in the manuals I have. But that makes sense, under the different conditions (barrel length etc.) the numbers might be very different.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
I also checked Norma's published load with a 300 grain Partition.
203B 26 inch barrel= 2491
RL-15 26 inch barrel= 2503

Norma load says that 56 grains 26 inch barrel=2411.

If you can get IMR-4064 then thats been the old standby powder for the .375 H&H for decades and it still works just fine.

As to bullets for near and far, and how they work on game, I like the Nosler Partition and it expands way out yonder and up close, peels back to the partition both far and off..sometimes it might blow off the front end up close but so what..


Another great bullet for the .375 is the Sierra BTSPs. I like the 250 gr. as it shoots incredidbly flat with that stream line design, and it expands both far and near..I would not choose it for DG but I know several very experienced hunters and PHs and a gun scribe of some fame that swear by it..Local elk hunters in Idaho love it, and have a pocket full of perfectly mushroomed expanded bullet from elk and deer.

Keep in mind that one thing you can bank on and that is there is no such thing as bullet failure with a .375 on Plainsgame and all NA game, including the big bears IMO.

I don't much care for the lighter bullets but they do work and work well, but velocity sheds pretty quickly it is said.

The .375 performs best at about 2500 FPS give or take 50 FPS.. Sure, You can get more with about any bullets, and some up to 2650 give or take 25 FPS more, that's about 100 fps and maybe you can squeeze a 150 FPS increase, but why? Hell you can toss a rock that fast. Use the load thats easy on pressure, feeds and ejects, and the most accurate.

Its one of the all time greats, right up yonder with the 30-06 in fame and fortune.