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15 years ago vintage large caliber brass/bullets were difficult or impossibly expensive to obtain and DRs even more expensive. More than a buffalo hunt generally with few exceptions. Most who did know something of DRs thought they were on the way out. I don't think anyone envisoned the resurgence we see today in big bore ammo and rifles. I'd bet there have been more .416 Rigbys, and 500/505/510 cal. rifles built in the last 15 years than in the previous 100. The numbers of new dbl rifles has to be similar. For all those reasons and a few more trivial ones I built myself a couple of DG magazine rifles years ago. I pride myself on my skill and knowledge of arms and practice seriously. I also work every gun I own on a electronic timer from realistic shooting positions. I know the time frames I can shoot in with good hits. I also know and teach how reaction times work and how to define them in a physical conflict and how they are intertwined with firearms for self defense. 15 years ago there was no youtube. I spent some time yesterday watching a number of DG charges with leopard, buff, lion and ele highlighted on youtube. Time well spent. I have been around big bears, but early on realised that we only exist around them, without a firearm, because they chose to let us. I believe I now understand why the PHs and the knowledgable hunters perfer a dbl rifle if possible. A bolt gun may get the job done but better to have two shots at your figertips on close DG. No surprise to many here I know. But it becomes obvious to me a Dbl Rifle on DG in clsoe cover is a good deal better than being highly skilled with a bolt gun. At some point, speed and power, trump all. Thoughts? | ||
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Never needed the speed or the power of my doubles yet but that doesnt stop them from becoming my weapon of choice at distances up to 300 yards on large Alaskan critters. I would never take either my Searcy or Chaupuis to the coastal areas to hunt the big bears due to the severe dampness and salt. These areas are best served with a stainless bolt rifle. I would however take either of my Baikals to Kodiak to deer hunt because they didnt cost that much and am not worried about getting them blemished. Now, if a company offered a stainless/syn stocked double at a resonable price I would order one immediately and use it anywhere in the world. Doubles are "romantic". Carrying one while hunting brings back all the stories of early Africa back to me. They are easy to carry, balance well and are just pure fun to shoot. Doesnt hurt that we see some envy in the other hunters eyes as we sit around the campfire and exchange hunting tales. Wished I could of afforded to get into doubles when I was younger. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Have you disabled the safeties on your Double Rifles yet? Rich DRSS | |||
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Mine is going to africa with me next year even though it is a plans game hunt. JUst because I want to. Worry not the 8x68 is also going along and any weight penalties be dammed. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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I had a rifle once that at the time I couldn't bring myself to hunt with as the wood was too pretty and I couldn't afford to replace it for the steal I got it for. I met a gentleman a month or so back, he took his original H&H take down 375h&h to alaska on a weeks caribou hunt. ended up having to have the stock refinished I think. didn't seem to mind at all. I really admired that. I don't know if I could do it, but I admired the shit out of it. off topic but I think a good story. Red | |||
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Randy never mind the blatherer. I don't get the double rifle thing. I am of the financial means to either appreciate fine rifles or fine outdoor opportunities but not both. For a variety of reasons I choose fine opportunites over fine possessions and so I will be hunting trophy bull elephant next spring with a Ruger rifle semi customized by Snowwolfe and his sort of staff. I used a Remington in .375 to take two cape buffalo. One of them was at a distance of 25 yards or so. I used a Ruger tang safety .338 to take a 27 3/8" skull, 9'9" brown bear at 15 yards. Last fall I reduced to possession a brown bear with the afore mentioned Remington and a few years ago I tagged an arctic grizzly with a Remington -06. The bolt rifles are as widely used and popular because they work. | |||
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More importantly, do you carry them with empty chambers? Rule One here: if you want to express an opinion/conviction you have to either stick with it or retract it. Stating that responses are hurting your feeling in an insufficient defense. I prefer the expression "holding your feet to the fire" to "stirring up shit". I got a yankee dollar that says you regret ever posting the safety/empty chamber posts. But, I doubt you would cop to that either... Good night Rich out of the vehicle, firearm has a full magazine, round in the chamber, and the safety is ON! This in non-negotiable, regardless of the approbation or lack thereof. | |||
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RULE ONE HERE: you have to stand by your posted opinions/convictions. Either that, or retract them. I'd bet a yankee dollar or three you would love to delete these posts and walk away. But, you can't. This is not "stirring up shit". This is what we call making you responsible for the consequences of your actions. It's why even the people who consider me contentious respect what I say. I don't crawfish, and I don't whine. You will be dealing with this for a long, long time here. You have many admirable qualities, and you DO contribute often to the store of knowledge we amass. If I were considering a hunt to Alaska I would probably bug you to death asking questions and making use of what you could share. regards, Rich DRSS | |||
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Scott, Next time you are coming into Anchorage drop me a PM and we can set up some range time so you can shoot my doubles. Seeing you are a lefty they should fit you pretty well. Be careful though, it could turn out to be expensive Love the doubles, but have no desire to get rid of my bolt actions. They are still great rifles and will be used often. I actually used a lefty Remington 375 H&H when I visited Africa as well. Worked fine on plains game but didnt have the funds at the time to afford to hunt buff or tuskers. Maybe next time. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Rich, Doubles are supposed to be carried with both barrel empty, and both hammers cocked.. | |||
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I can only say this... When hunting Dangerous Game, I much prefer a Double Rifle. Also when hunting ANY game under 300 yards, I prefer a double rifle, a scoped double rifle where most would use a scoped bolt rifle... For the Zombie Appocolypse... I want a magazine fed semi auto... Different needs for different deeds... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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+1 Several years ago I saw some information about one of the "Famous" British double rifle makers. Bases on serial number data there just a few double rifles produced from 1940s through 1980s. I can't remember the maker or numbers, I think the number produced was less than 12? Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Nothing, and I mean nothing handles like a well balanced DRSS or a SS shotgun, I think most bolt rifle enthusist would agree. I have been blessed to have experienced a charge from an elephant at five yards and with my 500N.E. DR did not feel threatened or endangered at all. Of course my elevator doesn't go the the top floor either. Seriously, with a bolt rifle in a big caliber I would not have felt that confident. I will hunt with a scoped 375 H&H DR this elk and bear season in Colorado and enjoy packing that rifle on a daily basis. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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+1 I made it to the range last week to ring out a little socom I picked up. There were two NOPD swat officers playing also, they were lusting after the socom so I let them both shoot her some, They were cool guys so I broke out the 505 and my scoped 470 chapruis. After having shot the big guns one of them asked what was the advantage of the double. I explained the two gun, on one frame bs and how a miss fire would not put me out of business. I squared off on one of their targets set up at 50 feet. I was just as fast, and maybe even a little faster on my first shot, even with or just a 1/4 of a second slower than their second shot. He was shooting a 223 m4 type with aimpoint.I told him that just one of my shots had at least 3x the energy and more than 5 times the bullet mass. I expained that it was more important how it handle at point blank than how well it shot at a 100 or even 50 yards. He just smiled. JD JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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And there's the rub. Randy, I'll be using our bolt .458 to chase bull ele soon. I also am planning to hunt moose and big bear in September, waterfowl here in September/ October, waterfowl and pheasants in North Dakota in October, and then off to the southern hemisphere in the spring as mentioned above. Following that it'll be subsistence waterfowl season here so that'll merit another plane ride out to the coast. I'd have to give up at least a third of those hunts in order to afford one dbl that upon the completion of the sales transaction I couldn't afford to hunt with! I can appreciate the interest in doubles, I own and seem to sucessfully operate a Red Label to great effect. But! Things being as they are I now have the means to grab my off the rack big bore and actually use it to pursue dg as opposed to owning a true dg stopping rifle and wishing and hoping I'll scratch the scratch together to go. | |||
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Bring a buddy or several...or a good dbl 'cuz you aren't going to get two out of a bolt on this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yTNo36YOs 2 rounds in under 1.5 sec.....could you? Or would you get ran over? My though is, best to bring a buddy and a dbl. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQzLAlVn-qc&NR=1 | |||
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I'd never argue that dbl's aren't better or more fun or safer or preferable in some hunting situations but I would point out there seem to be many client and tourist hunters still standing today in spite of using a bolt rifle. I do know some of the Barry Duckworth family has and still do use bolt rifles, At one time as I understand it Buzz Charlton used one, I've seen videos of Craig Boddington using a bolt and even from here on AR Mark Young seems to have survived several safaris without using a dbl. I think they're neat too but for now I can only afford to travel and hunt as much as I do by owning nothing more expensive than a Ruger. | |||
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Lets see now, Doubles are WAY WAY faster to the second shot than Bolt guns or single shots and because of the SUPERIOR handling qualities allow one to stay on target, lead running game better etc. than Bolt guns, designed for reliability etc. Yes they always were and still are the best of the best, and THE PREMIER weapon for close in DG hunting. Unless of course you carry them with no rounds in the chamber( for safety sake). -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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You got that right, doubles are no good for clubbing buff. Its screws up the regulation and they are much to heavy to swing. Have you ever noticied how a mag action cz or bruno have the feel of a good bat! JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Having read his hunting reports for a couple of years I'm under the impression that a)Saeed has and continues to hunt quite a bit and b) can afford whatever rifle he chooses to possess and I think Saeed hunts with a bolt action. Hmm. | |||
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JD- Yes now that you mention it. I do acknowledge the SUPERIORITY of the Bolt gun when used as a club. Those with no rounds in the chamber have a particularily satisfying FEEL when you just have to go "caveman" on a pesky Buff or lion!.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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