I have been re-reading some old Elmer Keith stuff and my curiosity about the .400 Whelen was sparked again. I doubt I will ever go as far as to build a rifle for this cartridge but I am curios as to the ballistics and performance on game. Has anyone here ever had one built or even shot this obscure round? The biggest problem that I see with this round is the head spacing issue.....doesn't look like you have enough shoulder left on an '06 case after blowing it out to .40 caliber. Sure would be an interesting rifle to play with and have though.

411 hawk...
jeffe

411 Hawk is a better design, sharper shoulder, more case capacity, without the potential for headspace problems that the 400 whelen is reputed to have.

Wolfe Publishing's "Big Bores" book has an article on the 400 Brown-Whelen that focuses on headspacing. This round is a slightly improved version of the original and was put together without headspace problems.

TXPO I have shot quite a few animals with my 450/400 double rifle. It shoots a .408 diameter 400gr. bullet at 2200fps and I use a 300gr. bullet at 2300fps for deer and wild pigs. It is very effective, and the recoil is not painful. The Rifle weighs 9 1/4 lbs.

In the February 2001 issue of Precision Shooting there is an article on the 400 Whelen. The other looked at old records and bought one of the original rifles. In this article the author states that the headspace problem is easily fixed by having the chamber and dies reamed correctly. He says and I quote "The ORIGINAL .400 Whelen shoulder is .458"." He goes on to say that more recent rifles that he has measured have had a .441" shoulder the same as the rest of the '06 based cases. His rifle was reamed for the .458 shoulder and he was using Whelen's own original dies and they worked fine. He made a chamber cast and sent it along with 2 fired cases to RCBS and they made him a good set of dies. So it seems that a lot of the headspace problems that we hear/read about were caused by improperly ground reamers and dies. If you would like a copy of the article I can try to scan it and E-mail it to you. Sean

There is an artcle at www.z-hat.com discussing the 400 Whelen. It could be the article LoneEagle is refering to.

[ 01-05-2003, 02:36: Message edited by: cgdavid ]

Curt, yes that is the article, thanks. Sean

LoneEagle,

I actually found that article by searching '.411 Hawk'. Found some pretty interesting info on it. I was really hoping to hear a little more about actual field experiences with this round but I guess there are not too many people that own a rifle so chambered.

TXPO, I've also read that article and found it interesting that the shoulder on the 400 Whelen brass was set back to .441 from .458 because of faulty FL dies and that it where the headspace problem stems from.

I've been collecting data on the various 40-06's for some time and had Z-Hat build a .411 Hawk for me. It is a great rifle/cartridge and I have had no problems headspacing the cartridge.

Mike Brady of Northfork bullets did extensive testing on this cartridge and recommends the 300 grain Northfork at 2500 fps. I'm currently shooting the 325 grain at 2450 fps. The cartridge is pleasent to shoot, but I have not taken any game with it yet.

Sighted in 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, I remember being 9 inches low at 300 yds and still having over 2600 ft-lbs of enery remaining. Compaired to the 30-30 as having 1800+ ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle.

It has been used on Alaska bears and I'm told (Alaska guide Phil Shoemaker's comments to my questions about his .411) you can't tell any difference out to 200 yds when compaired to the 375 H&H on bears.

Hope this info helps. The .411Hawk is a great caliber but I think any of these would be such as the 400 Whelen, .400 Brown Whelen etc.

Snapper

I have a friend who owned and hunted with a sporterized .40 Whelen 1903 Springfield for almost 25 years. The chambering and dies don't have much tolerance for machining error with this cartridge. The gun, ammo, and dies were purchased on consignment through a local gun shop (one great buy, as no one wanted the caliber). He had initial problems where he would get misfires with a shallow primer indent on some cartridges. Gunsmith did a chamber cast and they sent the cast to RCBS. They made him a good set of dies. What an excellent caliber. He used to hunt Alaska every other year, and never shot beyond 200 yards. He and I hunted PA whitetail. Never witnessed it actually hit a deer, but the deer I helped drag were 1 shot kills. This was his cartridge of choice until he quit hunting 4 years ago. I believe he used 400 grain bullets for their higher sectional density.If memory is right, he was getting just over 2,000 fps. This gun was fairly heavy and the recoil was not as heavy as with my .375H&H with full power 300 grain loads. IMO, this would be a great guide gun in a semi-auto.

I think I'd like one as a cast bullet gun.

I've been shooting a 375 Whelen as a lead bullet only hunting and target rifle for a number of years.
I wonder how the 400 Whelen in a 95 Winchester would do? I saw a 95 at the gun show today and I liked the heft.
You suppose that a 350 grain moving at 2500 fps out of a lever action would be considered a dangerous game rifle?
Jim

Is there any 'real' difference between the .400 Whelen and the .411 Hawk??? The Hawk uses a .411" bullet, correct? I was under the assumption that the .400 Whelen uses a .400" bullet.

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the 411 Hawk is an "improved" 400 Whelen, for lack of a better term. Both use .411 Bullets (.408 between the lands). The 400 Whelen, if I'm not mistaken is a 30/06 case opened up for this caliber. The Hawk version has the case blown out so the sides are nearly parallel and the shoulder has been moved forward somewhat. I think the 400 Brown-Whelen and the 411 Hawk are near identical except for the Hawk shoulder being moved forward.