Just interested in these two calibres and wondering what are the advantages and disadvantages of each calibre ??

One day I will need a little brother for my .585 Nyati

Yooh !!

I think there are advantages and disadvantages with both cartridges.
The .505 Gibbs is a huge cartridge with much more spendable case volume,,and therefor it will outperform .500 jeffrey big time. the downside is the huge case itself. It needs big, strong and expensive actions,,and the cases are a bit hard to get your hands on i think,,( may i be corrected on this one ).But now the problems seems to be solved,,when both BELL MAST TECH. makes cases for this caliber,,and DIETER HORNEBER.
The .500 Jeffrey are probably the most reasonable buy,,if feelings aren't the theme. It wont require so big actions,,it's more commercial,,which means both components and ammo is more available. And power,,well 2600 fps and a 535 grain bullet takes care of most animals.
That's my view. And what would i choose. If i had the money,,i'm sure the .505 Gibbs would be it. Reason ? well,,with BELL MAST ammo it can do 2600 fps with 600 gr. bullets , if not even better,,and it's a more nostalgic cartridge,,i think.

Sounds like it will almost out perform my .585 Nyati with good brass (.505 Gibbs).

I woder if anyone has built a .505 gibbs on a Ruger #1. Diesel dude on another thread has a cool looking bigbore .577. It looks great.

PC,

I went thru a similar process before I decided on the Gibbs (still at the gunsmiths) and for me, it came down to rebate rim vs 0.64" head size and length, both tough choices. Other than the Granite Mountain Arms action at 0.75", most rifles chamber for the gibbs use 0.7. I gave my gunsmith a choice between the jeffery and gibbs and he took the gibbs as he felt that for a DGR, reliable feeding was paramount (he was not comfortable with the Jeffery but this just might be my gunsmith's limitation. but I took no chances).

But perhaps the real reason I picked the Gibbs, is that I love the look of that cartridge, and it goes well with my 416 Rigby.

regards,

steve

PS: From http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/rifles.html

"The Bowen Classic Arms express rifles revive a small measure of this glorious past. These simple and economical conversions are based upon the sturdy Ruger No. 1 single-shot"

[ 05-05-2003, 17:19: Message edited by: steve505 ]

The Gibbs can match the Jeffrey with any bullet weight @ lower operating pressures. With it's capacity of 180 grains of water, it also holds real advantages in regard to using, long for caliber, bullets. I own and use the Gibbs with 570 and 600 grain bullets, which played a big part in my selection process.

The Jeffrey is of a more practical physical size, IMO, providing a capacity of roughly 160 grains of water, while still being functional on a '98 Mauser action (as designed). It utilizes the more available .510" bullets. The "knock" is its' slightly rebated rim, which some regard as a major (but necessary on the '98) design flaw, in that it leads to bolt overides with rapid feeding. I think this is somewhat overblown. Good cartridge, this, but I would opt for the CZ-550 action if wanting to use the longer, heavier bullets.

The .500 AHR, very Jeffrey-like but with a full rim and built on the larger CZ-550 action is a good concept, IMO. I like it, too, despite the lack of history. Also .510", with a similar capacity to the Jeffrey.

Perhaps the most practical option would be the .500 ASquare, although it would have to operate at higher pressures to compete. Cheaper cases, .510" bullets and an efficient powder capacity of roughly 144 grains of water.

I'd expect them to be indistinguishable from one another in the field but not so from lesser calibers, over time.

[ 05-05-2003, 17:47: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Do many 505 shooters build their rifles with 510 bores? (510-505 Gibbs)

I have built, shot and hunted with the 505 Gibbs and found it to be a grand cartridge, but more than I need, and the recoil is pretty grim IMO...the 500 Jefferys is more of the same with a brass supply that is questionable..It fits in a standard 98, but your crowding it a bit on the rails...Again recoil is grim.

Actually I would think the 416 Rigby necked up to 510 or whatever would be the easiest way to go, and you would have assurance of a continued supply of brass, no rebated rims etc. Never tried this but it seems a good fix at this moment, unless I have overlooked something like how much shoulder is left...

I was once told by a gentleman, who had owned both, that he preferred the Jefferys. He stated that the longer Gibbs actually provided MORE feeding issues that the shorter Jeffery. According to him the length was a MUCH bigger problem than the rebated rim. I believe his Gibbs was built on a true magnum Mauser action, too. As I recall, he stated both were phenomenal killers of game, and that neither was devoid of feeding gremlins.

Axel

I have a 505 Gibbs Improved built on a Vektor action and a 500 AHR ( basically a long necked 500 Jeffery) built on a CZ550 maybe it's just me, but I don't find the recoil bad at all in either. Yes ,the Gibbs will definately outperform the Jeffery particularily with heavy bullets. I use 570 woodleighs in both. I found getting the Jeffery to feed properly was much more difficult than the Gibbs. The rebatted rim is prone to bolt overrides and the only cure was extensive under rail milling to get the darn things to absolutely lie flat against the rails. The second cartridge down also tended to cause the 500 AHR to porpose and jam. It's without a doubt the most difficult cartridge to get to feed I've ever fooled with. Other than the size of the case and the amount of milling required to get the mag box length correct, the Gibbs was no more difficult than a 30-06.
While it's very attactive to consider a 500 Jeff on a M98, I don't want to bother with the amount of work it would take.-Rob

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
"While it's very attactive to consider a 500 Jeff on a M98, I don't want to bother with the amount of work it would take".

I'd surely agree with that. The better .500 Jeffrey guys begin by making their own magazine box and go from there.

Robgunbuilder, I have heard and read to actually here at AR, that the 500 AHR rifles do not feed well. In your expert opinion, is this feeding issue with 500 AHR rifles due to the cartridge or incorrect set-up of the rifle's magazine box and feed lips?

Thanks,
Axel

Axel- You own a 500 AHR, what has your experience been with feeding?
The 500 AHR can be made to feed quite well from a CZ550. The mag box is marginal, but one can fudge a bit by opening up the underside of the action rails more, filing out the mag box ribs and positionally staggering the first and third cartridges( the second round is moved about .100 foreward in the box as compared to the first and second round. It sounds hokey, but really works quite well. A small piece of Delrin holds them in place. Ultimately, I think a Schuler mag is the single best fix, however.-Rob

Due to the length of the case, and the FACT that the jeffery is actually jeffe-ry, I went with the jeffe...

Actually, i went with it because of bullets and the name. I got my to feed, after extensive work and hints from rob, dave, and roger the matter. It now feeds like berries through a goose.

Rob's correct, the easist would be a 510wells... hell, just use jeffery data in the wells, and you'll have jeffery ballastics... they are within a couple grains of capacity. I've shot a couple rounds, full house, in an a2, and it rocked my world... I'll pass for that one

If i had my druthers, I would prefer to see a 500x416 rigby (a2 with no belt) on a cz.

The rebated rim... interesting problem, as I too had to mill the rails, alot. When dave was here, I had moved my boxmag back a tad, and had feeding problems, as I didn't clean up the rails in the rear.

Now, it feeds great, and kicks like nothing you can believe.. it's there with the 577 nitro, in my 10.5" rifle (jeffery that is). But, the good thing is that NOTHING else i own has felt recoil...

jeffe

Robgunbuilder, I do not now, nor have I ever owned a 500 AHR. I do know a gentleman who owns and shoots one, that is it. I do not know if he has made any modifications to his rifle. Thank you for the information.

Just to make sure I have this right, you received your 500 AHR from AHR with feeding issues and had to fix them yourself? Is this the case Rob, or are you relating what AHR had done to remedy feeding issues with the CZ550 and the 500 AHR cartridge?

Thanks again,
Axel

Gentlemen

My test shooting of a 500 Jeffery was ok, but I guess it nothing you will find n my gunvault.

I tired 20 shoots and it was simply too much with 650 grainers.

I would rather go for a 450 rigby rimless or 416 or maybe a 404. I guess the 500-600 grain bullets in 458 caliber has higher SD than the most common bullet weights in the 500 cal.

/ JOHAN

Axel- You previously claimed to own a 500 AHR. Isn't that true? What about your famous picture? I feel like I'm seeing double! Have you and SS switched identities again?
For the record,I am completely satisfyed with my 500 AHR. It had some feeding problems at first , but AHR and I worked together to solve them. Yes I did the final fixes myself as I hate shipping guns anywhere.
As you know, a great many custom DGR's don't feed optimaly when they are first delivered. It's not uncommon to have to sort them out. AHR is a stand up company and stands behind their products. I'm also pretty savy on CZ550's and between the two of us it all worked out!-rob

Rob, IIRC, Todd E claimed to own the 500 AHR.

And just for clarity, Axel and Todd E aren't and never were the same individual, based on ISPs. I posted that tidbit of info numerous times during the "troll wars" but no one seemed to want to listen. They obviously know each other quite well, however.

FWIW, in hopes of avoiding yet another argument,
Canuck

[ 05-06-2003, 05:22: Message edited by: Canuck ]

.... IMHO the 500 jeffe is better... i have one!!
jeffe

I had the good fortune to test drive both calibers. The 500 Jeff was on a Mauser 98,weighed in at 10.5 lbs,pointed nicely,reocoil was not bad either,540 gr cast bullets. The 505 was on a CZ 550,I belive it weighed the same as the Jeffery,it was also pleasant to shoot,but I have to say I would lean more towards the 505,just my personal preference!

PC
Peter has my improved 505 reamer this one is without the neck so cal is upto you, he has a 505 reamer but with the neck which is why I needed to buy one for the 416.

If you want to load the 505 to modern cartridge pressures 55000cup it needs a strong action(read large thread) they fit on a no.1 but not a lot of meat around the back end of chamber - this is the reason I used the Bauska action. according to A-Sqaure manual max press for 505 is 40000cup

One day hopefully I will get a 510/505

The Q is what vel do you want to get out of a 50

416,

I would be happy to run the cartridge either jeff or Gibbs at normal velocity's (orginal ballistics) as I just like to own lots of calibres. This one will be a while however. I am under a new regime and I want a .338 Lapua magnum first. But I am getting my facts together for future reference. 416 you could just buy another barrel and have a switch if you wanted.

If you want a .585 Bob would still probably have the reamer from my .585.

In peoples opinions which would the .505 gibb's be an easier rifle to build than my .585 was ??

Robgunbuilder, I never claimed to own any AHR product. I did claim to have ordered one, which I was actually thinking of doing, but did not. So I guess in that regard I lied, and I am sorry about that. Thank you for sharing your experience with AHR with me, I do appreciate the clarification. I assume that AHR does a better job of getting the feeding right "out of the box" now.

Canuck, thank you for clarifying the facts. I do know the original Todd E poster. He used to work with me, but has been reassigned and is no longer in my office.

Axel

didn't it first state
0: it made a m70 look exactly like a cz550
1: 458 watts
then
2: 500 ahr
3: stated that is had a 585 ahr ON ORDER...

just trying to keep it real
jeffe

Jeffe,

Just tryin to sort out the facts as we know them, to help keep it real....

As I recall, ToddE=500AHR=POSeur is the one that actually owns the 500 AHR.

In an effort to generate a reaction from certain individuals (ie. troll) via an ill-concieved attempt at satire, Axel=CASEY made up a BS story (the Win Model 70/CZ 550, 450 Ackley or whatever stuff) about a picture of a rifle that was copied from a gunsmith or stockmaker's website. This rifle is apparently actually owned by ToddE=500AHR=POSeur.

A while later, following a long period of time where the majority of posts on this forum were a complete waste of bandwidth, ToddE=500AHR=POSeur sent me pictures of his 500AHR to post, which I did solely in an effort to help bring the debacle to an end, or at least eliminate one facet of the debate.

Although that particular move on my part didn't seem to help a heckuva lot, I am glad it seems to be over.

Near as I can tell, the two posters in question never lied about the fact that they are two different individuals and were co-workers. Also near as I can tell, JUDY=NRACHICK=SNIPERONTHEGRASSYKNOLL is Axel=CASEY's wife. Although it wasn't admitted up front, I don't think this was a secret in the end.

Axel, this is info I gleaned from ISP's and from PM's from ToddE=500AHR=POSeur. Sound about right? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Lately, it has been pretty darn nice around here. I sincerely hope that it can stay that way.

Cheers,
Canuck

[ 05-07-2003, 04:49: Message edited by: Canuck ]

Cannuck thanks for the reminder. The exact relationship between ToddE and Axel is somewhat cloudy to this day. We clearly know who ToddE actually is ( due to a series of blunders he made), but this appears to be a new perhaps improved Axel. He certainly behaves much better than the original one . I hope that continues. People generally try pretty hard to get along here although I've been laughing my butt off at the 470Nitro/Savage99 rejoinders recently.-Rob

This question has been asked a lot lately, I have built at least 15, 505 Gibbs in the last 15 years. Mostly doing the metalwork and then having the customer use his stockmaker. However I have finished four of these 505's myself. Keeping one for my personal use. I have been in love (I think) with the 505 Gibbs, since the first time I read Ackley's books.

Using HDS brass and Fed 215 primers, with 120.0 grains of IMR 4350, pushing 525 ASquare loin load bullets at a cronographed 2550 fps. From a 23" barrel at 10 feet from the muzzle. You don't shoot this load sitting from a bench or prone, believe me.

There is just something about the 505, I just can't put my finger on it.

I have been asked to make 500 Jeffery guards in the past. I have a pattern, but never got around to working out the details of converting a M 98 action to one.

Until then I guess I will just have to live with my 505.

Jim,
the enfield could use the guard for a jeffe, too!!!

Canuck, thanks for straightening that out...

hell, if ether of em comes to texas, I'll let em shoot my 500, with the same loads I shoot in it...and video tape it

jeffe

When it all boils down to being in the field, both th 505Gibbs and the 500J will kill
anything as long as we do our job with bullet placement.
In the past I think the 505 Gibbs was limited by the 525gn bullet whereas with the
500J you could always use other bullets from 440gn to 600gn.
Now that other bullet weights up to 600gn are available for the 505 Gibbs
it all comes down to personal preference.
I believe the Brno602/CZ550 is a good actio for the 505 Gibbs (unless you can get a
genuine Magnum Mauser (or Brevex or one of the modern copies).
500 Nitro

Canuck, you seem to have it pretty close. Robgunbuilder definitely identified the original "Todd E". Actually, Robgunbuilder, if I were to guess I would suspect that you and Todd E are pretty much the same personalitywise. He is a very intelligent individual albiet arrogant and opinionated. I mean that in a good way, though. Todd E was a techinical advisor for us and was very knowledgeable with regard to powertrains. His comments on guns were very logical, and made perfect sense to me, as well. I do not know how much was what he said was actually true though.

I do not pretend to possess much "gunsmithing" knowledge, but I do know mechanical engineering and modern machining techiques. I really do appreciate all the knowledge you guys share with me. I apologize for my past. I hope, in the future, we can all get along peacefully and learn from one another.

Jeffe, I would be happy to try out that cannon of yours, but could we start with those sissy loads or your first?

Axel

Axel- Just because a person is "intelligent" doesn't make them a decent person. Arogance without substance is also a recipe for disaster. Particularily when you run into folks who really know what they are talking about. Lies and deception are a real "charater flaw" and that was ToddE's problem.
Here's to all of us just "getting along"-Rob

PC,
For any 'big basher' the 500 A2,500AHR, 585's etc will do as you know.

The only thing either of the two 'classics'(500jeff &505 gibbs) can add to the equation is 'class'.

As soon as you start pushing them at 2600fps they are just another basher.

The option of classic loads in a proper rifle is why I would own one, and in that regard there is nothing to chose between the two.Both have ample case capacity etc. etc.

Karl.

Personally the 505 Gibbs seems to have a certain "air/legend" associated with it that the other cartridges just can't match. In a modern action a 570 gr bullet at 2500 fps just has to be an incridible Killer! The Granite Mountain action will actually hold three 505's down in the box and feed them properly!
I had a terrible time getting three 500 AHR's to feed smoothly from under a closed bolt on a CZ550. Proper feeding from under a closed bolt will rapidly determine how well a gun really works! None of this pop a round into the open mag stuff and close the bolt approach!I've long wondered if the CZ550 will feed three 505 Gibbs rounds. Anybody have one that does? I'd love to get the box dimensions if you have one that works!-Rob

Robgunbuilder, what exactly did you do to get the 500 AHR to feed from a closed bolt? Is it at all similar to what had to be done to get the 585 Nyati to feed?

Thanks,
Axel

Karl Down the track the plan is to build a classic African big bore in a classic calibre therefore it can't be a .585 or a 600 OK, it really needs to be a jeffery or a gibbs and 'today' I am leaning towards the gibbs.

I suppose you could have a .585 Nyati in a classic African look but it does not have the history.

PC, It must be the Gibbs. The perfect case.

Great pic Nickudu

And I know you have a great looking gibbs built on a supurb action if I may say so a good old 602 BRNO correct me if I am wrong mate

I think your right however

PC - You seem to imply that I am trying to hide the fact that I use a .505?

Build what you like, mate, no matter to me.

Nickudu- I think you sent me your box dimensions for the 505 on the CZ550. Will it hold three down and cycle the 1st cartridge properly from a closed bolt? I was thinking about it and the Gibbs .640 rim might just work much better than the rebatted 500 jeffery. Rebatted rim cartridges have a terrible tendency to porpoise and/or promote a bolt override unless the 1st round rides up near perfectly into the right side rail. When a second cartridge is undernearth there is a rolling effect that sometimes moves the upper righthand cartridge into a slightly cocked left position, which invariably results in an override. It's tough to fix! believe me! The Gibbs might not do that. the only 505 Gibbs I've built was on a Vektor action and it had a properly dimensioned mag box to start out with and was not a problem.-Rob

Robgunbuilder

I make Enfield guards that will hold the following

416 Rigby - 4 rounds
460 WBY - 5 rounds
505 Gibbs - 4 rounds.

This is in the box with some room to spare, then you can depress the top round and still close the bolt over the cartidge in the chamber.

If I figure out to use my wife's camera I will post some photo's.