I think Pydza is correct about the trigger. I only shoot big bores from a bench and I can't take the recoil and still be accurate. The 1.5 oz trigger really helps with the accuracy. The 500 A Square is about as much recoil as I can stand and it is 18.5 pounds with a 1.350 strait 30" tube and a 5 port brake. We use the big bores for bear baits so they are all shot from a rest and bench at 175 yards or less. Ross

I own and / or have built some of the most powerful shoulder fired guns in existence and designed two of them the .600ok and the 12GaFH. look up their specs !I learned long ago recoil management is a combination of using all the mechanical advantages available in combination with good shooting technique and lots of full power trigger time. I shoot about 100 rds per week these days of various big bores. Generally, I think your shooting form and ability to properly mount the gun and roll with the recoil while maintaining your head properly on the stock is by far the most important factor. You will never be hurt if you do this properlyand you will never get a scope cut . Moreover, you really don't need a scope with 5 inches of eye relief if you learn how to shoot properly! that's a fact!. I have Lotts that weigh 8.5 lbs and 500a2's that weigh 9.5 lbs and can shoot them accurately and consistently without flinching or pain and I'm no superman by any stretch of the imagination and I'm older than most of you too! I've learned what works and what doesn't and have passed that knowledge on to many on this board. Of course most dont listen and firmly believe they actually know what they are doing. I have observed they complain a lot and have very strong opinions! .-Rob

I've always wondered how mercury tubes worked. I understand the increase in weight. One can easily do the arithmetic. But there is evidently more to it that has not been clear to me. Comments?

On a side note about stock shape..
Years ago I had a pre '64 Win in .375 H&H and loaded 300 gr. with 75-78 gr. of 4350 at about 2550-2600 fps. I probably fired over a thousand rounds from this great rifle and often burned through 20 or 30 rounds of an afternoon with no probs.
I also had a Ruger No. 1 also in 375 H&H and the thing just kicked the shit outa me. Ten was about enough.
A buddy also had a Ruger No. one in 375 and he was very cumfy with it and could also go through 20-30 rounds with no trouble. But when he tried my Mod 70, it beat the hell out of him.
Stock shape and fit as well as weight have a lot to do with recoil tolerance.
Anyhow, wanted to hear a little about the mercury slopping around in those tubes. Don't understand the dynamics.

Personally I would take .500A2 over any .500Jeff. or .505 Gibbs for that matter anytime.

The .500 Jeffery it is a case of a bad design..., A short neck, .005" body tapper and rebated rim.

The .505 Gibbs is much better case design, but I would like it more if it was in .510" and with 700Gr. hunting bullets.

The rebated rim and the .005" tapper of the Jeffery case is OK if your plan is not to hunt. Every decent rifle will feed, extract and reject in clean environment, but add mud, dust or sand into the action and find out by yourself how many problems you will get. We hunt in these conditions and I wouldn't have .500 Jeffery to hunt with if it was given to me for free.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by RG Rhodes:
I've always wondered how mercury tubes worked. I understand the increase in weight. One can easily do the arithmetic. But there is evidently more to it that has not been clear to me. Comments?.

I've had several debates on this forum (you'll find them with a search) on how good they are but in it's simplest form, it's a matter of simple physics that mean for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. (Newton's third law of motion)

Mercury being a liquid, moves as it absorbs the energy of the recoil and that's why it's considerably more efficient than a solid weight alone. If the tube is fitted correctly and that wave of energy has to run uphill during the recoil it becomes even more effective.

To see a simple example, part fill a plastic bottle with any liquid, put the lid back on and then lay it flat on something like a skateboard and then suddenly push the skateboard forwards or backwards....... The wave that is created in the bottle is why a mercury tube recoil arrestor works as well as it does.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
Personally I would take .500A2 over any .500Jeff. or .505 Gibbs for that matter anytime.

The .500 Jeffery it is a case of a bad design..., A short neck, .005" body tapper and rebated rim.

The .505 Gibbs is much better case design, but I would like it more if it was in .510" and with 700Gr. hunting bullets.

The rebated rim and the .005" tapper of the Jeffery case is OK if your plan is not to hunt. Every decent rifle will feed, extract and reject in clean environment, but add mud, dust or sand into the action and find out by yourself how many problems you will get. We hunt in these conditions and I wouldn't have .500 Jeffery to hunt with if it was given to me for free.

Pyzda

Let's face it, the 375 H&H has a pretty much perfect case design for feeding and extracting. Both the 500 A2 and 505 Gibbs I believe also have a better design than the 500 Jeffery. But a good gunsmith (in my case it took 3) can make the 500 Jeffery feed and extract like butter. There are PHs out there who's life and their client's lives depend on their 500 Jefferys, and are very happy with them.

Well said Chuck.

A good gunsmith can get the 500J to work no problems. I have also known it to take 2 or 3
different one's to achieve it.

I also know two gunsmith's who get it right everytime the first time !

.

I've PHd with my .500 Jeffery for something like the last 10 years of my 32 year career. It's faced all kinds of abuse & harsh environments etc & I've been one for 'overcleaning' it & I've never had a single problem with it & it's performed flawlessly in all that time.

Mine is a straight feed & it can't be denied that some staggered feed actions might not be quite so reliable but the problem there lies with the staggered feed not with the calibre.

Thanks, Shakari.

I'll try that little experiment.

RG

Shakari, what's your opinion of the 500 Jeffery as a "stopper" compared to what you were using before?

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Shakari, what's your opinion of the 500 Jeffery as a "stopper" compared to what you were using before?

Chuck

I was using a (slightly downloaded) .416 Weatherby before the .500 Jeffery & as a short range charge stopper, the .500 beats the absolute pants off it...... It's not as good at longer ranges but I don't need it to be.

Thanks Shakiri!

Some very good and informative advice has been given.

One thing I have noticed that help reduce felt recoil is the material of the stock. Synthetics that have some give reduce the felt recoil noticeable.

To add Shakiri's imput on how or why the recoil reducers work is that the total force of the recoil is spread of a longer time, same principle as to why a semi auto can feel softer to shoot. The weight in the reducer takes the force and starts moving a milli sec or so after the rest of the recoil force has already hit you.

Just a note of caution on the Mercury Reducers. Mercury loves alliminium and if on should leak while on board an aircraft-most unlikely I know- there could be server damage to the plane. I have seen the results of a medical thermoneter breaking.

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
Just a note of caution on the Mercury Reducers. Mercury loves alliminium and if on should leak while on board an aircraft-most unlikely I know- there could be server damage to the plane. I have seen the results of a medical thermoneter breaking.

That is indeed quite true but a properly made & sealed mercury tube recoil arrestor that's been correctly fitted shouldn't be a problem at all.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
Just a note of caution on the Mercury Reducers. Mercury loves alliminium and if on should leak while on board an aircraft-most unlikely I know- there could be server damage to the plane. I have seen the results of a medical thermoneter breaking.

That is indeed quite true but a properly made & sealed mercury tube recoil arrestor that's been correctly fitted shouldn't be a problem at all.

Steve while what you say is dead right the problem comes with most baggage at airports now being x-rayed. If the reducer is picked up and the owner identifies it as a mercury filled reducer the airline may refuse to carry it. Least ways here in the nanny country this is a very real scenario.

Mercury is listed as a hazardous substance (but not as a banned substance) in the air navigation order (carriage of dangerous goods act) and such small amounts are permitted if properly sealed.

FWIW, I've been travelling with rifles (including many times through LHR) containing these things for 32 years and never had a problem

I believe the issue is IF something breaks and the mercury leaks out and flows as is likely
into the aircraft interior, the whole aircraft
is written off as they cannot guarantee it's structural integrity.

Wouldn't surprise me as it would be damn hard to find every little bit of mercury !!!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Wait till you put 600gn bullets in both of them,
it makes a difference to the felt recoil !

Looking at some data on the web, I'm seeing the 600gr Woodleigh PP at 2165fps in the 505 Gibbs and the Woodleigh 600gr PP at 2486fps in the Jeffery. Even more of a tip of the hat toward the Jeffery in terms of power. Am I missing something here as all the data I've seen and read on the two shows the Jeffery to be the more powerful round.

The original factory loads for the 500 Jeffrey were in fact more powerful than the 505 Gibbs. However the Gibbs has larger case capacity than the 500 Jeffrey. The 500 Jeffery operates in the 46,000 PSI range, the 505 Gibbs at 39,000 PSI. This was to give a larger margin for the effects of hot weather on the performance of old cordite loads.

If you have a strong modern action and you load to equal pressures then the Gibbs will always outperform the Jeffrey. Similarly if you load to a certain velocity with a given bullet weight, the Gibbs will achieve the same velocity with a lower pressure, although you will use more powder to achieve that.

In the end you have the capability to push heavy bullets much faster than is really necessary with either round.

I've never seen an animal of any size that's been able to tell the difference between the two calibres....... either will drop anything that walks like a sack of shit if the bullet is put in the right place.

My $.02:

1. Make sure your rifle fits. Close your eyes, mount the rifle. Are you looking through the sights?

2. Mount any scope as far forward as you can without vignetting.

3. Never shoot on the range without ear muffs, so you don't develop a flinch.

4. Shoot as little as possible off the bench. Get or make some shooting sticks. If shooting off a bench, make sure your position is upright, not leaning forward.

5. Grasp the rifle hard with both hands and cheek it hard. If you can't do this,it does not fit.

6. Make sure the rifle weighs enough, about 9 pounds for a .375 H&H.

7. Throw all recoil reducing devices (mercury, muzzle breaks, but not recoil pads) in the river.

8. Caliber should be .375 H&H. There is no point to having a larger caliber and more recoil/flinch will just make it harder to kill game. After you master the .375, you can go to a .458, but I'm not sure there is any real advantage.

OK, I have an additional question regarding stock fit and proper mounting. I think I know the answer, but clarification from some of you with far more experience would sure help me, and probably other members as well. One of the earlier posters said "cheek it hard", so what is the proper location? Such that the comb is firmly in the pocket, an inverted L if you will, formed by the cheek bone and the face area below it, with the cheek bone, and trapped flesh, firmly on "top" of the comb? Sorry, it is tough to describe, I tried, anybody have a better description, or a a really good referrence, book or online?