I have read many different posts about recoil between 2 or 3 different cartridges, but I can't seem to find any big list comparison for many calibers. I would like to know if you kind people could indulge me and provide some feedback. The most powerful firearm I've fired is a 338 Win Mag with 250 gr. bullets. The ammunition was loaded relatively hot, the rifle is a Ruger 77.

I would like to know the relative recoil of the following calibers in rifles they'd likely be shot in. Feel free to give me your impression or calculations.

Double Rifles (most likely)
600 Nitro Express (NE)
577 NE
470 NE

458 Lott
458 Win Mag

416 Taylor, Rigby, Rem Mag

404 Jeffrey

375 H&H

I'm not interested in Weatherby's. I've already heard the 378 and 460 are too painful. The Nitro Expresses are just for interest, not that'd I'd ever be able to afford one or shot one.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

If you have the basic info you can calculate it here. Weight of bullet, gun, velocity and powder charge.

http://sst.benchrest.com/recoil.html

Yeah, I've seen other recoil calculators. I don't really have any idea about powder charge other than putting in the data from the reloading page at AR. I was more interested in people impression from shooting them. It sounds like there are a tremendous number of people here that have shot many of these rifles and can give some really opinions versus my guess. It's hard to describe from reading a number how much different a 30/06 is from a 338, etc.

Thanks for the link to the site though.

Here's one of the best charts I've seen and it's not far away!!http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html

Awesome, you da man. That's sort of what I've been looking for. I guess I looked in all the wrong places.

cs273,

The AR recoil chart does give a pretty good idea of the relative recoil of the various rounds. However, recoil is subjective and one persons "very heavy" is another persons "moderate." With more shooting of bigger rifles you indeed develop a "tolerance" and proper technique further helps you. Different styles of rifles will recoil differently (eg a Ruger #1 vs bolt) and proper weight and set up (LOP, stock shape, pad) make a tremendous difference.

I will use myself as an example of recoil "progression." When I first got my 338 Lapua TRG-S years ago I though it was a mighty impressive rifle (it IS a great cartridge!) with tremendous recoil. I learned to shoot it okay but I honestly didn't look forward to benching it. After finding Accurate Reloading and the Big Bore forum a CZ 416 Rigby was purchased. OKAY...maybe that Lapua wasn't quite the bad ass after all When you are pushing 400 grains at 2400+ things ARE in a different league. I learned to pull that sucker tight into my shoulder with both hands and developed a certain closeness with big rifles. Call it macho, sadism or stubbornness, but I really got into learning how to shoot the bigger bores well. 375 H&Hs followed (really a great, super, splendific round!), another 416 Rigby and 2 458 Lotts.

My recoil tolerance was tried when I first shot my bone stock Ruger #1 458 Lott. 9.25 lbs with the stock crap pad. With Factory 500 gr loads I felt every one of the 80+lbs of recoil. This was really not fun. Sure it was sick cool to feel a stinger run down my arm, but I wanted to seek mods that would tame the beast a bit. A slip on pad and a Leupold 1.5-5 scope helped by adding weight and some cushion. I killed quite a few ground squirrels with this rig and really developed a love affair with the Lott.

Early this year a Ruger RSM in 458 Lott was acquired. A slip on pad and the same Leupold 1.5-5 scope was added. Man, what a difference I swear it feels like a 20% recoil reduction and the recoil comes back at me, not up (which I prefer.) I shot close to 200 rounds at ground squirrels and chucks this year and look forward to shooting many more next year.

Long story short. If you are interested in bigger rifles buy one! If you want a great all arounder a 375 is wonderfull, but might be too close to your 338. If you handload I heartily suggest the 458 Lott. You can load from starting 458 win loads up to full 500 grain pills. Unless you are one of us junkies, a top loaded Lott will be enough. Maybe you will find the bigger rifles aren't for you, and that's okay too. But I bet you will love the experience Start off easy and go from there...

I put a couple of thousand rounds through my Cooper 17 HMR and hundreds through my centerfire varmint (and assorted other middle caibers) rifles each year. BUT, my biggest thrill is with the bigger stuff. Join the dark side!

John

Here is a brief summary of my own recoil experiences.


.600 NE - This one was a traumatic experience. My daily limit was 3 rounds with a 10 minute rest between each shot. The muzzle would rise to nearly vertical, and I think I temporarily blacked out because I would realize I was looking at the sky, notice a front sight bead pointed at a cloud, and then remember that I was shooting. Each shot would instantly make me nauseous and hurt my shoulder a lot. In a hunting situation, I figure it would take me 10 seconds to recover from the first shot and get off another. As much as I love the .600 NE round, I can't take a punch well enough to use such a rifle effectively.

.585 Nyati - This is a line of demarcation. .500 NE and down do not move my body much. But a full power load from a .585 Nyati moves my shoulder back a foot, and snaps my head pretty good. 6 or 8 rounds leads to a headache. I had to take pain pills BEFORE shooting the rifle.

.500 NE - Quite a bit more recoil than the .470. It is a sharp jab with enough muzzle rise to knock a pair of sunglasses loose. 10 or more shots can start a headache.

470 NE - Less than the .458 lott. Not enough to bruise you. But it is necessary to hold the rifle tight and concentrate.

458 lott - in a properly built rifle, the recoil is nothing to worry about. In an improperly built rifle (such as a factory Win M70 that has been reamed out but not restocked), the recoil will be obnoxious.

458 win mag - less muzzle rise than a .416 (less powder, less jet effect), but a wee bit more muscle in the punch. Probably 25 or 30 rounds is about it before my concentration starts to waver.

416 rigby - a push, not hard, a little fast, and some muzzle rise. No bruises left, not particularly startling.

375 HH - a tiny bit more jab than a 9.3, but nothing to be concerned about.

9.3 x 62 - recoil feels like a hot-loaded 30-06. No problem for a lady or teenager with some shooting background.

Recoil comes two different ways. There is the free recoil that can be nicely figured on charts just like foot lbs of muzzle energy. However, that doesn't tell the whole story by any means. Along with stock shape, fit, gun weight, quality of recoil pad, etc., etc., goes the demon of recoil velocity. That bastard is ugly! It's what gives the big Weatherby's their unholy, and well-deserved, reputation for pain. The faster you drive a bullet down range the faster the rifle slams into your cheek, shoulder, neck muscles, etc. If you are going to go for some sort of boomer start thinking less of muzzle energy and more of kinetic energy and frontal area. Large, heavy bullets don't have to go very fast to do great damage on big game. Since really large animals aren't shot at long range anyway (dangerous game isn't dangerous at 200 yards!) the flat trajectory provided by high velocity is of no advantage and you pay for its uselessness by absorbing recoil velocity. Don' do dat! There is no earthly reason for a 400 gr bullet to go faster than 2400 fps nor is there any reason for a 500 grainer to go more that 2300. Yeah, I know this is heresy to some among the brotherhood. I will avoid rude comments about their central nervous systems . This is where I stand and I ain't budgin'!

Appreciated the post JKS
Fired a muzzle braked 458 win mag in a mod 70. I liked it. Was told with the muzzle break it would be equivalent to a 375H&H.
I want a carry around 375 H&H ideally around 8lbs. I can reload milder loads.
How does this sound as a first medium bigbore?

Am asking the question as most factory rifles are around 10lbs set up and I may be on the wrong track? i.e will it kick me too hard or will the reduced loads totally negate the reason for owning a 375HH?

cs273: I agree with what has been said here, principally with what JKS and 500grains said, although I have never shot anything larger than a .458 Win or Lott. Shooting a big gun takes practice and shooting one is actually somewhat different that shooting one well.

You cite the .378 Wby as being just too much...I can tell you the .378 is a modest rifle, both in size and recoil..but like an urban myth, people think it is a beast that cannot be tamed, which just nonsense. I shoot 400 gr bullets in my .416 Wby. between 2450fps and 2650fps, and this rifle does recoil. But it is not that bad. It will shoot smaller bullets much faster. It takes practice though. Having a rifle made properly and practice is more important than the consideration of recoil itself.

Of course, if you get much beyond a bolt action .500, I imagine that blunt physics and your body mass will take over as measures of recoil tolerance. In terms of recoil, a fully loaded .458 Lott is only marginally less than a fully loaded .460 Wby. Recoil is depended on how well the rifle is built and how well you know how to use it, no matter what the caliber.

I've gone to recoil level's way beyond the .600NE. What I've learned is that handling recoil is both mechanical and a state of mind. There is no point in having a big gun if you can't shoot it well or become afraid of it. ASA others have said there are some basics of how to hold the gun and ride out the recoil. Personally, I concentrate on the sights and trigger control and "go with the flow". Gun design is critical, a .600NE Heym with its terrible stock design and no muzzel break kicks about twice as hard as my .600OK with exactly the same load. Like any gun don't obsess about recoil just obsess about hitting what your aiming at.-Rob

Your list is about in line, but I would venture that most 458 Lotts recoil more than the .470s, probably because of the velocity factor, the Lott having considerable more as a rule..

Anyone that says the big bores are just a maidens kiss is either a sicko pervert or has just destroyed his nervous system..the rest that say that are internet junkies and full of shit...

So much depends on the fit of the rifle and it's weight being proportionate to it's caliber. I've honestly had 18" Rem 870's (shooting slugs) that were alot less pleasant to shoot than my M77 .458 Win Mag believe it or not. My M77 is totally stock except for a spongey Pachmyer recoil pad and it's really no big deal at all. It tips the scales (no scope) fully loaded at 9.75 lbs. It's recoil with 500gr at 2125fps is just a good shove, even off the bench. My old M77/MkII .338 Win Mag seemed less pleasant to shoot off the bench also for some reason (around 8 lbs rifle). The key to it is to snug the rifle into your shoulder tight and keep your face down on it snugly and just ride with it. No big deal...

The .375 H&H is very pleasant to shoot. My Ruger RSM fully loaded (no scope) weighs 10 lbs 3 oz (scoped it's 11 lbs). It shoots like a 30-06 basically to me.

If the gun fits you and is in the 9 to 10 lbs range you're not going to find it that bad IMHO. Some people are more sensitive to recoil, so that's just my perspective.

I do wish my .375 was about a pound lighter to be honest, that's my only criticism of the Ruger RSM, but then again it's sure a sweet shooting rifle that I can shoot all day without a flinch. You just have to train yourself to get accustomed to the 10+/-lbs category of rifles. Rather than spend alot of money doing all kinds of tricks to lighten up a .375 I'd just start carrying it and build yourself up to it and use the money you save for ammo!

I enjoy my .375 H&H and my .416 Rigby BUT I do not enjoy sighting them from a bench! The 9.3x62 has a mild recoil and can be used on most anything. I´d give a thought to what you need most -if it´s a DG rifle then pick something from .375 and up. Give a lot of thought to the stock and if possible have one made up as a custom job.

I'm with JKS. I was always mightily impressed by the recoil of my 9.3x62. Until I got the .416 Rigby. Now I shoot the 9.3 as if it were a .22!

By the way, I do get bruises from the .416 if I treat it like my other rifles. I just tought myself to relax as much as possible on the bench, to avoid tremors etc influencing my shooting.

The other night I wasn't thinking and in a very relaxed mood touched off one with the .416 to test the new front sight. Ouch!! Got a nice bruise, where the bicep joins the shoulder. I guess I'll pay more attention next time.

Frans

I had not seen the lovely table of recoil velocities and energies. Very nice ... but may be just a little misleading if not thoughtfully interpreted.

For example, I have never enjoyed shooting the 30 Mags. They move very sharply. Also, I find a .338 WM to be more obnoxious to shoot than the 9,3x62 and the .375 H&H. This is probably because mine as built as a mountain rifle so it is pretty light. (It is an M70, but has an excellent McMillan stock.)

As I look at the comparisons of the .416 Rigby and the .470 NE they too have to be taken with some salt. My Rigby is lighter than the Searcy and so it moves more violently.

I am not particularly sensitive to recoil, but the .470 NE is plenty for my taste. I really have to wonder if carrying more would make sense given the challenge of returning the rifle to aim point for the next shot. I guess some of the hard core big bore guys would consider me to be a chicken ... but I really don't feature being abused by my equipment.

Rob,

That Heym stock fits really well, and I cannot see any reason for it being so harsh with the recoil. But it is.

Howe does your .600 OK stock design differ from the Heym design?

I have looked at Heym Express chambered for .500NE 3", and at under 10lbs it must be a bastard to shoot! One only needs to look at the "business end" of that "Krupp-Special Laufstahl" barrel to spot the "problem". The Ruger Magnum in .375 is just the opposite.

Hello everyone!
Forgive me cs273 if I am hijacking your thread but I feel that my question fits here.
I'm new to this forum and have started tapping into it's wealth of knowledge and wisdom since I decided I needed a "real" gun and got a BRNO 602 in .458 WinMag. I plan to convert it to Lott but first get used to recoil and fix it up the way I want it. The first thing is to change the montecarlo (not hogback) for a straight stock.
So a lot of recoilmanagement is stock fit...
What makes a stock fit, how do I meassure "unfittnes" if you get what I mean?
Greateful for any tips, thank you all!

You close your eyes bring the gun to your shoulder than open them and if your gun fits you should be looking at your target through the sights. I always ended up looking at the bolt shroud of my 602 ie the stock had too much drop for me. The only way to be sure is to do some "snap shooting" at 50 yard target. A nice cluster means the gun fits you.

quote:

458RugerNo1: 18" Rem 870's (shooting slugs) that were alot less pleasant to shoot than my M77 .458 Win Mag

Good point. I find heavy shotgun loads to be more unpleasant than big bore rifles from a shooting position.

Those of you that shoot the big bores and can post photos, I would like to see where you are laying the butt of that stock against your shoulder when you are shooting from the bench, and also the placement of your forward hand.

I must be holding the butt too low on my shoulder. A box or so from my 300 WSM will blacken the top of my bicep.

RAy,
You have such a succinct manmner. You are the master of under statement.

Kensco,
Make yourself a set of safari shooting sticks and use them instead of the bench. That way your upper body will take the force. It sounds like you need to hold the stock in the meat of your shoulder instead of your arm.

Anyone that hasn't tried a Limbsaver recoil pad will find them a revelation .