Gentlemen,
I am sure this has been discussed before but I am considering buying my first double rifle and am looking at a Rodda 450/400 listed on Gunsamerica. Considering the depth of experience with double guns on this forum, does anyone know anything about this rifle? If not what should I look for besides the obvious, bore quality, external rust, handling marks, cracks, etc.? Would I be better off buying a new Kreighoff or Merkel for roughly the same $$$$ in 470NE?
Thanks again.

I have no personal experience with the Roddas, but hear that they are well regarded. About the only things I can think of in addition to the factors you listed are the joining of the barrels, and regulation of the barrels. Inspect the solder joining of the barrels and ribs, etc., everywhere you can see it. At the muzzle, along the top and bottom ribs, etc. And, IF there is some way you can arrange to do it, it would be an excellent idea to get a few rounds of the "correct" ammo (what's the availability of 450/.400 ammo these days??) and shoot the thing to see how well the barrels are regulated before you decide to keep it.

As far as regulation is concerned, I think if you bought a new Merkel or Krieghoff, they'd be willing to ensure that it is properly regulated, should your testings how that it is not, after you get it. (The 470 NE is a LOT MORE rifle, on both ends, than the 450/.400!!)

[ 11-27-2003, 19:06: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

or, waiting till the 45/70 mp221 eaa double rifle is available, for less then 600.00 ....600.00 ...

i believe these will be the sporterized mauser of the double rifle... not very expensive, might be okay to shoot.. ANIT a high dollar good rifle.... but will teach lots of us about doubles.

jeffe

Jeffeosso,
Could shed a little more light on the double 45/70 you mentioned. I haven't heard anything about it. Who's making it and do you have any idea when it will be brought out ??

Thanks, Happy Turkey day....

Bwanamrm,

What I know about doubles wouldn't fill a thimble, so take it for what it's worth.

But I was at Champlin's a couple of years ago and spent an hour or so with J.J. Perodeau. The one thing that he reinforced was that most things can be fixed on a double, but if the bores were bad, that would be VERY expensive. He also mentioned that if it is off face, that can be fixed fairly easily.

I would recommend that you arrange to send it to a competent gunsmith, such as J.J. Perodeau, to give it the once over, prior to payment in full.

Take Care,

-Steve

Bwanarm,
Rhoddas are nice doubles, but shoot it and have it checked by, in your case, Lee LaBois in Nevada, he is close...otherwise do not buy it...Make them let you check it out, shoot it for groups at 50 yards, its just too big a investment to jump into head first simply because lots of trash is out there and you can really get burned. An English gun will hold its value better than any new gun but if I were to want a top draw double today I would buy a Searcy, and they run about the same as the rest of them...the new Searcy PH model is very English in all respects. I have a 470 on the way.

here's the link to the eaa double..

latest rumor is first quarter of 2004

http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/rifles/sidebyside/izhmp221t.shtml

jeffe

I have two Roddas one is a 450/400 3" the other is a 360 express. They are nice rifles but...they are the unloved step children of Enlish rifles. They run about 20% less than other English rifles. You may have a harder time selling your Rodda if you ever need to.

Urdubob

[ 11-28-2003, 22:05: Message edited by: urdubob ]

Here is my two cents! First don't buy a double you have not shot! If they won't let you shoot it Run as fast as you can. Look for cracks in the stock and evidence of corrosion. My 450/400 shoots extremely well and the caliber is quite impressive. I've never owned a Rhodda so can't comment on their quality.-Rob

R. B. Rodda & Co. was a solid Birmingham maker that concentrated its marketing efforts primarily in India. They don't have the name recognition of the west-end makers and the prices should reflect this. Quality varies from decent to exquisite and they are ususally worth having.

There is no good reason to accept any great risk when buying a second-hand double rifle. Follow Ray's advice, that is how it is done. No reputable dealer (or an individual seller for that matter, as long as he has nothing to hide) will object to having the piece gone over by a professional, including shooting it. If they do, move on to the next rifle.

The condition of the barrels is paramount. Because new barrels will usually cost more than the rifle is worth, the useful life of the gun is governed by the life left in the barrels. For this reason, I demand minty bores and have probably passed on some rifles I should have bought. Be sure to have your 'smith slug the bores so that you will know what diameter bullet to use. Both .408" and .411" are available from Woodleigh (my .450/.400 3" has .408" grooves).

Shooting before buying is imperative - simple inspection just doesn't get the job done. If you have no previous double rifle experience yourself, I would suggest that you have your professional do this. Choose someone who also re-regulates double rifles. If there is a problem, they can tell you if the matter can be easily resolved.

Also have the wood carefully evaluated. If the stock head is oil soaked and soft, it may need to be restocked. Properly done, this will be expensive and you'll be upside down in the piece.

I've always used J. J. Perodeau for double rifle work including having had one re-regulated a number of years ago. I can recommend him highly. I've heard good things about Lee LeBas and David Yale, but have not used them.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

You want the final word on this subject, the above post by 400 Nitro Express is it!

[ 12-01-2003, 18:33: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

I would also echo what 400 Nitro Express posted.

I had a Rodda double in .450x.400-3". The rifle was an excellent shooter after I got it sorted out. It was built on a webly action. Most Rodda's appear to have been sold in India, or to India bound hunter's, which may explain why they do not have the cachette of some of the other makers who were selling for the Africa market. The guns that I have seen, including my own, appeared to have been built as working guns, and were not fancy, but were well made. A lot of the Rodda guns on the market that I have seen were purchased in India within the past 5 to 10 years and reflect hard service with less than stellar care. Thus the bores are often rough, and the finish needs some help. In spite of all that, they still seem to shoot well.

As to having the gun evaluated I can comment on both David Yale and Lee LeBas.

I have had David Yale do work on two guns, a double shotgun that he completely restored from a basket case and a double rifle that he evaluated and rehabilitated. David also did a gun fitting for me, when I visited him. He does excellent work, and his shop is what you want to see in a custom gunsmith; clean and organized.

I have also visited with Lee LeBas in his shop, where he evaluated a drilling for me. Lee is very helpful and knowledgable. I have seen some of his work, but have not had him work on my guns, though based on the work I have seen, I would not hesitate to have him do so. His shop is also clean and organized.

Based on my experience, either David or Lee will give you an honest evaluation.

What to look for when buying a double rifle?

I suggest looking for the name "Searcy" somewhere on the rifle.

Do any of the actual shooters of doubles above know much of reboring doubles or seen it done? LaBounty's business had gone much that way at one time and for around $900 he could give you a brand new bore (its probably a little higher by now). Much of his work was contract work for Holland's so I suppose if it was good enough for them it must be a reasonable way to salvage an otherwise lost gun. The process is quite fascinating... he has a flexible cutter head that follows the bow of the barrel and he literally cuts the rifling out a ten thousandth or two at a time the same way one cuts new grooves. Once the rifiling is gone he continues until the new land dimension is reached, then cuts new grooves. Quite labor intensive but does not require any unsoldering of the barrels. I haven't talked to him in many years and just wondered if anyone on the forum had experienced one of these rifles?

500 grains:

From his original post, I have the impression that the gentleman was looking for something of better quality than the weapon that you suggest.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

tiggertate:

I've heard that LaBounty is still primarily occupied with reboring doubles. In addition to H&H, he also did a lot of work for Rigby back when Paul Roberts owned it (he sold the firm in 1997). I spent an afternoon at Rigby's in London back in 1992 and Paul showed me a rack of British pre-war doubles in 9.3X74R. All had been rechambered and rebored, most from .400/.350. Four of them were Rigby sidelock ejectors. LaBounty did the boring and Paul re-regulated them and had them reproved in London. A friend of mine had one of these 9.3's and it shot quite well.

The trick with reboring doubles is having enough barrel wall thickness after you're done and its a good idea to then return it to England for re-proof just to be sure. Not long ago, I saw an old .303 double hammergun that had been rebored (not sleeved) to 9.3X74R. I wouldn't have attempted that one, but it worked and passed re-proof fine. Fairly recently, a fellow who occasionally posts here had a Hollis .470 double rebored to .500 3" Nitro Express by LaBounty and re-proved in England. I don't know how it worked out but maybe he will see your post and respond.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

[ 12-05-2003, 22:49: Message edited by: 400 Nitro Express ]