If one were to build a rifle in .404 Jeffery, what would be the best action to use? I'm thinking about having one built but don't know enough to understand comments like, "No one makes the right box for the .404", "You don't need a long action for the .404", "If you want 4 in the magazine you need...". I look forward to hearing about how it should be done.

Best? A true Mauser action, such as you can obtain from Gottfried Prechtl (or same action through Reimer Johannsen) or Karl Heinz Ritterbusch. Note that the magazine box must be specifically dimensioned for the .404 in order for it to feed 100% reliably.

Cheapest? A model 70 in one of the Remington Ultra Mag cartridges, which is cheap to rebarrel and reqiures very little attention to achieve proper feeding.

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I'm also toying with the idea of a 404 if I don't do another 375. In either case, my plans are to use a standard length Oberndorf or FN Deluxe Mauser with Blackburn magazine/triggerguard. My gunsmith is plenty capable of properly altering the feedrails, ramp & bolt face. I own 5 magnum length Mausers and have owned 3 others and although they are beautiful, impressive and work well they are also heavy and more cumbersome.

if your "smith" is good and can do the job.....further you stated nothing about cost.....use a 1917 (win or Rem) enfield action as a base.

I used a 1999 Montana and am happy with it but I didn't install bottom metal to allow for more shells in the magazine.....if it's available it's a good action IMO.....and a lot less than a reworked enfield.

fla006,

Blackburn does not make bottom metal that is the appropriate geometry for the .404. He makes one for the 416 rem which also works for the Lott, but that is not the correct geometry for the .404. Ray Atkinson tried this a few months ago, and can give you the scoop if you call him up.

What your gunsmith could do is find an original Obendorf .404, measure and photo the mag box, feed rails and ramp, and then set off on an R&D project in an attempt to duplicate that setup.

Another route for a proper .404 is the Win. M-70 control feed with in the RUM or Ultra calibers that are on the 404 case, this works like a charm, just rebarrel and tweek'um....The cut out in the inside of the box is the secret to a 404, along with proper dimensions...Blackburn magazines are not the answer I assure you, Ted makes a great magazine but you be better off going with the .416 Rem in one of his good boxes...the fix'um to .404 is bloody costly and time consuming if done properly....

I see no need nor do I want a Magnum size action for a 404, any 375 length action is fine and makes a lighter trimmer rifle...The 404 case is fatter than a .375 but thats fixable in the box by any good tig welder, and the 404 case is shorter than a .375....

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson: and the 404 case is shorter than a .375....

Hm... In my books the H&H meassures 2,850 inches, and the .404 Jeffery 2,860 inches?
In either way, not significant for converting.

Ray, doesn't a Model 70 in one of the RUM or Ultra Mag cartridges only come from the custom shop and start at $3,000? If that's the case then a GMA or 1999 might not be that much more expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson: and the 404 case is shorter than a .375....

Hm... In my books the H&H meassures 2,850 inches, and the .404 Jeffery 2,860 inches?
In either way, not significant for converting.

Bent-
I guess it shall be OAL and not case length

I've know of a magazine box/floorplate which houses 4 rounds in 404 Jeffery No, I have not measured it ....

Cheers
/JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
Ray, doesn't a Model 70 in one of the RUM or Ultra Mag cartridges only come from the custom shop and start at $3,000? If that's the case then a GMA or 1999 might not be that much more expensive.

Although I think they have been discontinued, I believe that they were offered in the Model 70 Classic for a while. There is a Supergrade .300 RUM on Gunbroker right now (I think it has been there before).

Wink, no offense intended to anyone considering the MRC 1999 action, but better be absolutely certain that the mag box was designed specifically for the .404. IF it is a "one size fits all" affair, then trouble will result. Also, just a personal thing, but I really do not like the Sako bolt release. It downgrades the appearance of the rifle IMO.

Good luck with the project.

I don't know what you want to spend, but Empire Rifles will make whatever you want, and they are guaranteed for life and also guaranteed to shoot one MOA at 100yds. They are very nice rifles, especially on the new 98S action. I was so impressed after getting my hands on one to look at, I called them up and ordered one in 9.3x62mm. It should arrive in Jan or Feb. I can't wait to get it.

I will probably never understand why there are all these Magnum RUMs, UltraMags, Dakotas, etc. based on the 404 case but nobody makes a 404. The 404 has history, nostalgia, Africa charm and is actually a caliber that most anyone who can shoot a 375 H&H can also shoot. So why doesn't anyone make it? Didn't Ruger once chamber it?

Wink

Heym chambers their safari rifle in 404 Jeffery and then you have Mauser 03 http://www.mauser.com/index.php?id=909&lang=en

Cheers
/JOHAN

what about wffHein,anyone seen their stuff up close & personal? prices not too bad& they make 5 sizes of actions.

Maybe the most expedient and cost effective route is the CZ550 404 ?

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Wink, mine is built on a M70/300RUM rifle. They are available, I bought mine as new for something like $400. New 23" PacNor bbl., 1/4 rib, other goodies. Now that CZ makes one, I would probably go that route, & just add goodies to it like 1/4 rib, banded front, cross bolts, 3-pos. safety if you like.

I'm having two built on Montana long actions and both seem to be coming along just fine!

Wink,

Have you considered using the Dorleac firm in France?

500grains,

Where do you find these pictures? Those are spectacular looking rifles. I have never even heard of Dorleac.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Maybe the most expedient and cost effective route is the CZ550 404 ?

Forrest,
Correctomundo. Even the CZ factory was able to make that action function perfectly with the .404 Jeffery in the Safari Classic CZ 550 Magnum. Sadly, the .505 Gibbs is a far cry from satisfactory in the same action.

The CZ .375 H&H box is actually perfect size in width for the .404 Jeffery by Mauser co-sine rule, it is just overly long, but that is not a problem, more of an advantage, and could be easily fully perfected.

My CZ 550 Safari Classic holds 5 down in the box of .404 Jeffery, and a sixth could be snapped into the chamber with finger pressure on the extractor, ala Mauser.

The CZ 550 Mag does indeed have a true Mauser self-locking extractor. Can anyone name another action that does beside the true Mausers and CZ?

That is the defining feature of the controlled round feed and extraction action: CRFE

Yep, I had fun with the .300 RUM M70's off the rack, rebarreled those to .404 Jeffery and .416 Dakota, and they feed just fine. If anyone recalls the African Sheep Rifle in .404 Jeffery, well, there is an African Sheep Rifle II in .416 Dakota.

Its hard to say which is best.........best means differnt thing to differnt people.

I think a Mdl 70 classic in 300 ultra is a good place to start, get a barrel, sunny-hill bottom metal, factory box and a 100 dollar check to Dennis Olson to get it too feed and your in the 404 business...........thats what I did, feeds slicker a gut.

I recommend the Brno ZG 47 action!
A little bit longer than the standard Mauser action.
Weld some 1 mm on the magazine box and you have a 3 round magazine -why need more?

Any "hillbilly" gunsmith in Sweden can make such a rifle and get it work

Husky

After 500's display of beautiful rifles I can not hold back. How about this Westley Richards Lux?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Wink,

Have you considered using the Dorleac firm in France?

Beautiful rifle, but the scope mounting can not have been done by anyone who has ever fired a gun??? Or it is set up for a peron with very special anatomy???

quote:

Gringo Cazador: sunny-hill bottom metal, factory box and a 100 dollar check to Dennis Olson to get it too feed

Billy, some folks above say Blackburn doesn't make a proper magazine for the 404. I just happen to have a Sunny Hill drop box for the 375. Will Sunny Hills work for the 404? Did Dennis have to open up your mag to get it to work?

.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:

I just happen to have a Sunny Hill drop box for the 375. Will Sunny Hills work for the 404?

Will it work, or will it work PROPERLY? It will feed most of the time. But might overshoot the chamber center line by a bit, and could pop the cartridges out, particularly the last round. The problem is incorrect angle.

Take 3 rounds of .375 H&H. Rubber band them together as though they were in a magazine box.

Do the same with 3 rounds of 404 Jeff.

Now compare the angles. The mag box angles should match the angles of the rubber banded rounds. There is a big difference between the angles established by the .404 and the .375.

I went through the same thing with a 470 capstick. Started with a box for a .458 Lott. There is not a lot of dimensional difference between the Lott and the Capstick. But there is about $800 in additional gunsmithing to get the capstick to feed out of a military Mauser compared to the Lott. And an irritated gunsmith in Montana at the end of it all.

Good luck.

Thanks 500. So do the side walls of the mag need to be slightly wider?

Not just wider. Different angle, or different taper.

500grains, I didn't even know about Dorleac until you brought them to our attention. They don't travel to the gun shows or hunting fairs in the Paris region. But I will definitely have to visit them if I ever get down south to Perpignan. I checked out their web site and the work in the photographs is, too my taste at least, superb.