I have never hunted a lion, so am not sure whether one goes heavy and slow or light and fast . I will be hunting one around next May, and here are my options for the guns I could be taking. Bullet drop is not an issue at the short distance the target will be. Recoil is immaterial as well. The bullets will be CEB Raptors.

.500 caliber 450gr HP @2450fps = 5999ft/lbs or 335gr tipped HP @2800fps = 5833ft/lbs at the muzzle.
.458 caliber 420gr HP @2300fps = 4934ft/lbs or 250gr tipped HP @2900fps = 4669ft/lbs at the muzzle.

As far as the energy difference goes between heavy and light in each caliber there does not seem to be big difference. However, I do not know what the impact/shock would be like on a thin skinned animal. I did use the 335gr on a bear earlier this year, and it was through and through and I could not find the heart to see the impact as it was shredded into soup by the petals. But, a bear is not a lion.

Would appreciate any feedback, especially from those that have hunted cats.

I will deferr to others with more experience, but, on the basis of my one lion I would go light and fast. I had a semi fail hit that still resulted in a one shot kill, but with a lions thin skin and light(comparatively) bones the faster faster you can take him down the better---waiting overnight for the followup was a mind bending experience.

its not like either of your selections are exactly small anyway---------

If I was going again I would be using the 225 safari raptor in my 416 B&M

CEB Safari Raptors + toothy/clawed critters = light n fast

500 MDM use either the tipped 335gr Safari Raptor or the tipped 350gr Safari ESP Raptor.

458 B&M use the tipped 258gr SOCOM Raptor.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
CEB Safari Raptors + toothy/clawed critters = light n fast

500 MDM use either the tipped 335gr Safari Raptor or the tipped 350gr Safari ESP Raptor.

458 B&M use the tipped 258gr SOCOM Raptor.

Yep, go for the speed. According to Ganyana lions are susceptible to speed.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
I have never hunted a lion, so am not sure whether one goes heavy and slow or light and fast . I will be hunting one around next May, and here are my options for the guns I could be taking. Bullet drop is not an issue at the short distance the target will be. Recoil is immaterial as well. The bullets will be CEB Raptors.

.500 caliber 450gr HP @2450fps = 5999ft/lbs or 335gr tipped HP @2800fps = 5833ft/lbs at the muzzle.
.458 caliber 420gr HP @2300fps = 4934ft/lbs or 250gr tipped HP @2900fps = 4669ft/lbs at the muzzle.

As far as the energy difference goes between heavy and light in each caliber there does not seem to be big difference. However, I do not know what the impact/shock would be like on a thin skinned animal. I did use the 335gr on a bear earlier this year, and it was through and through and I could not find the heart to see the impact as it was shredded into soup by the petals. But, a bear is not a lion.

Would appreciate any feedback, especially from those that have hunted cats.

It will make no difference.

Use whatever you are happy with, I can assure you the lion would not know the difference.

Just make sure of your bullet placement.

I have shot a number of lions with relatively slow 416 - at 2400 fps - and some with a relatively fast 375 - around 2850 fps.

None went more than a few feet.

I shot mine with a 300 g TSX out of a .375, he swapped ends and fell.

As Saeed says, placement is everything. Use something you can hit the picture on a face card from a deck of cards every time, study lion anatomy a bit, and drop it dead with 1 shot.

Similarly, I used a .375 Ruger shooting 300 grain TSX bullets. One shot and the lion rolled over DRT.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
I have never hunted a lion, so am not sure whether one goes heavy and slow or light and fast . I will be hunting one around next May, and here are my options for the guns I could be taking. Bullet drop is not an issue at the short distance the target will be. Recoil is immaterial as well. The bullets will be CEB Raptors.

.500 caliber 450gr HP @2450fps = 5999ft/lbs or 335gr tipped HP @2800fps = 5833ft/lbs at the muzzle.
.458 caliber 420gr HP @2300fps = 4934ft/lbs or 250gr tipped HP @2900fps = 4669ft/lbs at the muzzle.

As far as the energy difference goes between heavy and light in each caliber there does not seem to be big difference. However, I do not know what the impact/shock would be like on a thin skinned animal. I did use the 335gr on a bear earlier this year, and it was through and through and I could not find the heart to see the impact as it was shredded into soup by the petals. But, a bear is not a lion.

Would appreciate any feedback, especially from those that have hunted cats.

Any of the above combinations are going to work on Lion. Pick one you shoot well and are comfortable with.

In the old days I had seen many a lion killed cleanly with a 30-06 and PMP factory ammo.

Enjoy your Lion hunt.

tanks,

It is important to pick a bullet that will not break unacceptably and, above all, will give good linear penetration. On game that can fight more effectively than what you can, bullet reliability is key.

Tanks,

My experience has been as others have already said that a lion can be taken handily with almost any big game caliber and a good controlled expansion bullet. My last PH who had been on many many lion hunts said he would be very happy to let me use my 30-06 on lion. In my mind the difference comes when you are talking about a tracking hunt as opposed to a baited hunt. On a baited hunt it would make sense to me to use the faster bullet as you'll have the shot pretty much all set up and you should be able to get an almost perfect shot opportunity. Actually on a baited hunt a good scope with an illuminated reticle is probably far more important than the bullet. If your tracking the lion in what might be heavy cover with the lion perhaps knowing it is being pursued I think a heavy bullet might be more appropriate. Your shot may come at an odd angle, through a thin screen of brush that you may see or not and you could have to stop a charge. To answer you question in my mind your 250 at 2,900 fps would be perfect for the baited hunt and the 420 at 2,300 probably a better choice for a tracking hunt.

Mark

My first one was taken with a 9.3x62 in the "Valley" and the next was taken with a 425WR in the Nyassa.
Both with WOODLEIGH round nose bullets which are about ideal.
The old cat taken with the 425 was a quartering shot with the bullet recovered in it far front shoulder. Massive internal damage and no exit yet he made it into the long grass.

Never shot a lion, but I like heavy and slow as a rule. A .40 cal. 400 grain bullet is hell on leopard. I suspect it would handle his bigger cousin, but why go lighter? It won't be a long shot.

If in doubt, listen to the expert

"In time I abandoned carrying softnose
bullets for the .416, for the ones
available from Kynoch tended to break
up. The only possible use for a soft-nose
bullet would be lion, and I found that the
.416 rolled lions over with a solid pretty
well anyway".
—Harry Selby

Well you did ask for any feedback, especially from those that have hunted cats what more can we ask

quote:

In time I abandoned carrying softnose
bullets for the .416, for the ones
available from Kynoch tended to break
up.

Maybe this had something to do with his decision to use solids. He figured correctly that the reliability of the solids available was better than the reliability of the softs available. Today the situation is different with softs and the recommendation has changed.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

quote:

In time I abandoned carrying softnose
bullets for the .416, for the ones
available from Kynoch tended to break
up.

Maybe this had something to do with his decision to use solids. He figured correctly that the reliability of the solids available was better than the reliability of the softs available. Today the situation is different with softs and the recommendation has changed.

I would agree bullets have come a long way from back then, I think Selby's quote answers some of the question as have others here, the big and relatively slow will work well on Lion too.

Whatever you do, do NOT use A-Square Lion Load.

They far too soft for my liking.

And as Gerard has mentioned, a bullet that will hold together and penetrate is very important.

Two of the lions I have shot where with 400 grain Trophy Bonded bullets in 416 caliber.

The rest were all with either Barnes X or our own Walterhog 300 grain bullets from a 375/404.

quote:

Yep, go for the speed. According to Ganyana lions are susceptible to speed.

I agree, I outran the bitch that chased after me!

I think it would be more productive to place the shot properly first regardless of speed or weight. I shot mine with .375 using 300 grain Swift A-Frames. Followed up with two more but really just insurance shots.

Dutch

I've taken 2 lion and my oldest son has taken one as well.

1st) 350gr TSX in 416 Rigby
2nd) 255gr Safari Raptor in 9.3x74R

My son's) 300gr TSX in 375 H&H.

Only the 416 resulted in the lion running at all, and that one ran maybe 20 yards and killed over. Lion are not hard to kill but if you screw it up on the first shot, you'll have a handful to deal with. As Aaron has stated before, he'd rather face 10 wounded leopard than a single wounded lion. Shoot straight and it won't matter what you use.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Whatever you do, do NOT use A-Square Lion Load.

They far too soft for my liking.

.

I'm not advocating super soft bullets , but as an observation to my personal experiences in the 90's , I can say that I have witnessed Many a lion crumble under those Lion Loads. The most spectacular lion kills I've ever seen where with them. Admittedly the smallest caliber used was a 416 Rigby and the largest a 500 A square. Back then the bullets that were really causing trouble for me with Lions were the RWS TUG ( or TIG ? cant remember which it was ) and normally from a 9.3 x 74 ( Not trashing the caliber , it just happened to be a popular caliber with Europeans )
I guess I was just really lucky that everything always worked out on those ( too ) soft Lion loads.

We cut up some of the RWS bullets.

They had paper thin jackets.

How would a hard lead alloy 530gr Minie out of

the 585HE at 3300 do on lion.Could go faster. Ed