80 grains gave me 2380 fps (or there-abouts) with 400-grain A-Square Monos. Unfortunately, it also gave me a sticky bolt and flattened primers.

I've fallen back to 78 grains with this bullet for 2300 fps., even.

I sure hope it doesn't bounce off the buffalo when I shoot it!

GAHUNTER,

From what I read on a certain ammunition maker's site, the bullet is already traveling too fast for optimal penetration. Run it at around 1500fps, and you can shoot through three buffaloes at a time. At least!

George

Aye, Aye, Col. Garrett.

You think 1500 is slow enough? I can back it on down a little more, you know.

2,300 fps sounds about perfect. Easy on the shoulder, hard on the Buffalo.

lawndart

I've only shot one bullet out of a .404 at a buffalo. The buffalo has done be ate... and the 400 grain X-Bullet ended up in Mali or Ivory Coast, I reckon, 'cause it just made a quarter-sized hole on the off shoulder and kept on trucking. And, no, that's not Teddy Roosevelt, but me with the subject West African Savannah buff.

BTW, I have all my softs (400-grain A-Frames) loaded with 92 grains of IMR 4831, which produces 2350, give or take 20 or 30 fps. I sometimes shoot Ray's 93 grain load (did today) for right at 2400 fps, but the crunching sound of powder compressing when I set the bullet is disconserting.

How in the hell he gets 95 grains in a case is beyond me. I'd have to run over it with a truck to set the bullet on top of that load.

Somebody tell me about this Varget load. I've heard-tell that you can get 2400 easy with no pressure problems, but I have seen no firm recipes.

JudgeG,

Ain't that the Holstein bull Luke McWorter was looking for so hard last summer?

Wait'll I tell him what you did!

Yep, that's Luke's cow. I've been fibbing about ever going to Africa and killed all my "buffalo" in Jones County. Since I'm coming clean, here is a picture of "Luke" and his staff that ate the cow... and worse, yet... I killed it with a .45/70.



You should have seen the little Toyota truck that retreived the buffalo. It seemed that everybody in Nazinga consession (Burkina Faso) wanted to go get the buff. Every fellow in the picture just had to be a part of it... The truck, with 550 kilos of buffalo and all these guys aboard, singing and chanting on the way back to the camp was about as cool a thing as I've ever witnessed.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
80 grains gave me 2380 fps (or there-abouts) with 400-grain A-Square Monos. Unfortunately, it also gave me a sticky bolt and flattened primers.

I've fallen back to 78 grains with this bullet for 2300 fps., even.

I sure hope it doesn't bounce off the buffalo when I shoot it!

The A-Square pressure barrel with the 400 grain Dead Tough soft point (conventional jacketed RNSP) gave 49,800 psi, with 80 grains of RL-15.

If you are getting such an obvious hot load, which sounds like over 65,000 psi, then I would say that the following, one or all are at play:

1) The A-Square monometal brass solid has a long bearing surface, is tough to engrave and generates great friction/resistance in the bore. It may be a pretty tight fit too. And, the long bullet uses up a lot of case capacity: Not good in this situation.

2) Your Bowen rebore barrel is tight in its dimensions: Good.

3) Your chamber has been reamed to good and tight specs with the zero freebore CIP standard throat, just the leade of 1 degree 20 minutes: Good

Sounds like you need to find a different bullet for your rifle.

The North Fork and GSC bullets offer flat nosed, monometal copper, banded choices in solids that won't waste case capacity, will produce less barrel friction, and probably be more accurate.

400 grain Woodleigh RNSP and FMJ will produce less pressure in your rifle with the charge you have found to be excessive. Try it and let us know, or have you already?

FWIW, my McGowen barrel seems to be a low-friction-non-fouling-self-cleaning wonder barrel.

It likes Varget (24" velocities):
80 grains Varget with 400 grain Woodleigh FMJ >>> +2400 fps
81 grains with 400 gr Woodleigh RNSP >>> +2400 fps
83 grains with 380 gr North Fork SP/CP/FP >>> +2500 fps
87.6 grains with 340 grain NF SP >>> +2700 fps

Most listings will show that Varget is a little slower in burn rate than RL-15.

Not much, maybe an 81 grain charge of Varget is equal to an 80 grain charge of RL-15 in the .404 Jeffery.

Your rifle may be "tighter" and higher pressure for any load than mine is. I would approach my Varget loads from 5 grains below what I have listed, and you might get my performance with less powder ... if you have any desire to shoot these bullets I have listed for my loads.

I have seen no signs of pressure whatsoever in my rifle. I have wide grooves and skinny lands with 10" twist, .423" groove, zero freebore, CIP spec chamber.

RL-15 and Varget are the top picks for avoiding compressed loads for top velocity.

Varget is more temperature insensitive and more uniform in my .404 Jeffery rifle than RL-15 is.

VARGET EXTREME Your mileage may vary.

My SWAG is that my loads are 50Kpsi to no more than 58Kpsi in my rifle.

I have not had pressure problems with 80 grs. or RL-15 in my .404, but I can get Holt ???, the African gun editor, load of 95 grs. of IMR-4831 in a case without any problems other than it is lightly compacted??????

93 grs. of IMR-4831 is my std. load that I hunt with for the most part..but I used the 95 gr. load a good deal in Tanzania over the years..I use RWS, Bell and Norma cases.

My records show that I have always used RWS for the 95 gr. of IMR-4831 load, but that probably not right as I think I have used the others also at the range anyway... ....Chambers were cut with a Clymer reamer...

GA, I suspect it's the longer, monometal bearing surface that is causing you problems. I shoot 83gr of IMR4831 under the Barnes 400gr mono for 2170fps, it's plenty for me. I'm having a machinist buddy mill out 1/2 the center of the driving band to see if it reduces pressures for this long bullet.
And I too can never figure out how Ray gets all that 4831 under a 400gr anything. H4350 or RL19 are also good in the .404.

Would that be Holt Boddinson (sp?) Ray? He gave you that load? Adventurous lad, aye. I am guilty of the same. I just don't like messing with drop tubes and compression, or trying to find that roomier RWS brass.

RIP,

You are right about one thing; my rifle has -0-freebore. This could be the problem.

2300 fps ain't too terribly bad, however.

I'll try the Woodleigh solids later, but I've already loaded and packed my 404 loads for my trip in April. I'm on to finding the "perfect" .300 mag load for Mr. Spots. Ray will be glad to know that I may have found a Nosler Partition load (w/77 grains of Re. 22)that my gun likes. I've loaded up 20 to try tomorrow.

Fred,
I just don't think that you can get 2100 with 83 grs. of IMR-4831...I think you should check your chronograph, but I may be mistaken...

I have a fear of shooting any 4831 with lighter than recommended loads as that has caused a lot of blown up rifles with 4831 (double ignition) and it seems to me that your getting real close as 93 grs. gives me 2300 as I recall and your 10 grs. below that???????

Just my thoughts for whatever they are worth...

Ron,
I have always loaded 76 grs. of RL-22 with a 180 Nosler for my sons 300 Win mag..Its accurate and a real killer...

I load my 300 H&H with 200 and 220 gr. Noslers with a gallon of old surplus 4831...

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
RIP,

You are right about one thing; my rifle has -0-freebore. This could be the problem.

GAHUNTER,
That ain't the problem. That is the way it is supposed to be by CIP spec. Zero freebore, just a leade angle of 1 degree 20 minutes that tapers down to the rifling is the only throat there is there.

The obvious thing is the brass-monometal, long-bearing-surfaced bullet that will get pressures up for sure, by eating up case capacity and causing greater bore friction than other bullets.

Has the bore been slugged to show that your groove diameter is 0.423"? Wide or tall lands will also get pressures higher.

I suspect that Lothar Walther barrels will generate more pressure than McGowen barrels, but your Bowen Rebore rifling is an unknown for me.

Ray's reply above was meant for you.

Ray,
Get well soon, you loveable curmudgeon. However, should your common cold take a bad turn, and if I am selected to fire in the 21-gun salute at your grave, I promise to bring a walnut and blue Mauser in express rifle dress.

My barrel is a Kreiger .423.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
My barrel is a Kreiger .423.

Then it is the bullet that is the problem. Excuse me for thinking Bowen rebored a Ruger barrel. My bad.

But it is no problem if you want to keep it down to 2300 fps with RL-15, as you say. One would have to guess that 78 grains would be a pretty hot load with that bullet. 77 grains and maybe just under 2300 fps might be better.

Ray, the chrono is spot on, it's just that loooong solid piece of bronze does bring vel. up 50-75fps. I need 85gr to get the 380grNF to 2200fps from my 23"bbl. But I do appreciate your concern.
I was curious so here are some numbers:
83gr IMR4831 (w/o drop tube) fills the fired/resized Norma case to 0.670" from the mouth. The Barnes 400gr monosolid's driving band is 0.740" long. So there is a tiny bit of compression. 94gr (w/ 6" drop tube) fills the case to within .401 (say .404 ). That would be alot of compression to get that loooong solid in, I'm pretty sure it can't even be done (well over 1/4" compression even after the drop tube). Maybe in an RWS case, maybe.

GA, I found another page of notes showing 75gr of RL15/WWLRM under the 400gr Barnes mono gives 2245fps from my 23"bbl.