The 720 gr slugs are from Ranger Rick... http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/.

I don't post any reload information anymore but you can do a search for 45-120 and 45-120 Express on this forum, online, in AmmoGuide and Graybeard Outdoors - NEF/H&R Talk (also tykempster)...some of the loads have been posted...I don't know your level of reloading/ballistic expertise so that is one reason and also messing around with wildcats or wildcat loading can get people hurt.

I run my NEF around 40KCUP for the most part, try to say in the 90% and above load density and seat the 720's to 4.32" COAL touching.

The 720's and the throating reamer is used didn't quite match so I had to turn down the bullet nose section slightly to get them to bore ride at that length. I can go out to 4.5" COAL if I want.

All the information is available online but you have to research it...sounds like a snow job but if you're knowledgeable you can find it easier yourself than waiting for forum help.

There are many 45 cal bullets available and many mould makers...Mountain Moulds
http://www.mountainmolds.com/
has an online bullet design program for cast lead bullets and there are a couple posters here on Big Bores that can make you some excellent turned bullets...RobGunBuilder and Macifej.

Velocity ranges and twist rates are readily available online...several free programs there.

The 720 gr bullet is ~1.685" long and is on the ragged edge of stability in the 1-20 twist NEF...at ~1700-1900f....anything slower and you need a faster twist to be sure of stability or shorten the bullet to 1.4" to 1.5"...lots of ways to get there if you are thinking about a "whisper" type of toy.

I use a set of Lyman 45-70 cowboy dies(cheapest full set I could find) for all the different lengths. I made up some bushings to go over the case to use as stops...Yes...as set of 45-120 dies will run you a bit...CH4D and Buffalo Arms have them available. I only have to resize to the base when I get all hairy-legged, need some bashing around and jack the pressures up, otherwise it's basically just the top half inch or so to hold the bullet.

I used various pieces and parts of 458 WM and 45 ACP dies plus some I turned out on the lathe to get started before the lyman dies arrived. They worked well enough to go bang initially.

If you want to get into this wildcatting more than shin deep get QL or Load from a Disk(cheaper, simpler but much less data) and a subscription to AmmoGuide, then all the data you want is there for the taking.

Check with Tykempster on Graybeard, he has some good information and data on the 45-120, and there are a few others that have done this conversion.

Luck

Lyman dies are available from Midsouth for $38, excellent dies BTW.


http://www.midsouthshooterssup...asp?sku=000157460506

Rick sent me half a dozen last year. They are about three inches long. Nooooooooooooooo. Okay, they are only 1.677" in length. 5 grease grooves and one to crimp in, Round Flat Nose, and a .345" meplat. Real hammers.

Rich
DRSS

Thanks for all the help. I am really surprised you are getting 1700 plus with the 720 grainers. I figured they would be in that 1200 or so mark. I figure I should just play with it a little befor I really start tweaking the loads for a Whisper. Probably not a lot of 45/120 whispers out there. For now I will stick with 500 grainers and try to develope a happy load. $38 for dies I will order them today.

I don't think a 45-120 would be considered a whisper by any stretch of the imagination...LOL... If you are really looking for a small case with a BIG bullet you could use a 500 S&W necked down or there are several other very good candidates or just cut down a 45-70 to around 1.5" - 1.75"(a 45-50 so to speak), seat to about 3" long and run at 1000-1400fs. A long pointy brass bullet up near 1.5" long would have a very nice BC do wonders at those velocities...maybe not quite a whisper going off but would have little recoil and plenty of energy out to 125 yds or so. There are quite a few 45 cal "Whispers" already out there...458 SOCOM, 450 Bushmaster, 458 Whisper.

I've turned several different .458 cal shapes and nose profiles to play with, but haven't got there yet. The problem with brass is it's light. The long pointy ones 1.5" run only from 350 to about 380 gr, the long truncated nose FN's or WFN's run from about 400 to 500 gr.

I also reshaped a few of the 720's to pointier nose profiles...truncated nosed and spitzer nosed. Haven't gotten a round toit for those either quite yet. Just finished some load workup on my 9.3x62, 375 H&H, 222RM and 20 Practical so as soon as I get some winterizing done I will get to the 45-120 and maybe some "Whisper" work...something quiet for the Trannysarats that inhabit the southern end of Oregon... LOL

Lyman dies are good ones, but I can't say much about their shell holders...I busted out two Rigby shell holders on one stuck case...RCBS just grabbed and held and the case came out.

Lots of toys to do and so little time.

Luck

I am stuck with the 22" barrel so I will not be breaking any velocity records. I was thinking of using 120 grains of black powder (call me crazy) Barrel length should have a less negative effects using black powder. For some reason it is kind of fun to see the big clowd of smoke and that sweet smell.

It's not always about how big or small, or velocity, bullet size or weight, how big or small or bad a something is...it's about satisfaction in what you do or did...and what you find along the road to your destination...whether that is whacking the biggest, meanest, most dangeous game ever imagined or encountered, blowing holes in paper, or doing a cartridge no one else has done.

Check out some of the cast bullet and black powder forums...the 45-120 always causes a ruckus. Cut through the opinions and you will find tons of good information or at least a basis for learning the ins and outs of BP.

It might be cool to sniff the smoke, but the stuff is dirty and a PITA to deal with and clean up. I have 3 BP shooters and I have tried a dozen or so in my 45-120 cartridges. It's bad enough to clean the rifle but to add a REALLY dirty case...yuck...but it's still fun to light one off and the cleaning chore isn't all that bad after all.

Luck

For those interested in a 45-120 and reloading data:
Steve Carpenter has a two volume set on loading and shooting the big 45 with black and smokeless loads. Also grooved and paper patch lead bullets, jacketed, and solids.

he's at: www.getagripgunbooks.com

Steve Garbe had a big write up in a recent issue of the Black Powder Cartridge News quarterly magazine.

Hope this of assistance.

Rich

Yes, I bought them both. Good reading.

Thanks for the link ISS, as I see that Steve Carpenter has also wrote a book on the 40-90 SS....

Yes...Thanks Rich ...I have been mining the web for accurate info on the 45-XXX's but missed Steves page...blinders on or something...

Wish the site moderators on the different forums would sticky information like this...it gets lost in the threads quickly and hardly anyone searches for data seems like. Would make for a BIG data lump probably.

I will get an order off.

Luck

Hey FOOBAR, if you don't wanna post on here, could you PM me your 45-120 load?

I shot some 720's in my rifle, but haven't reamed the throat yet (always too busy) and OAL and velocity both came up short, and I got keyholding.

Nevertheless, I got about 24" of penetration into a hardwood log against the grain.

I need to ream the throat so these bullets have a nice smooth tunnel, I mean throat, to travel down...

Sorry Tyler...I quit giving out ANY reloading information...just too dangerous...I don't post pictures anymore...CNN just had a nice article on privacy and GPS tagging on pictures sent thru the various photo posting links...and I shut down PM's for similar reasons.

The more I see what is going on on the web the more dangerous I see in it's implications to society as a whole.

I know you are a reloader with a bit of common sense but I have no control over how and what you do with data you find in loading manuals, software programs or develope on you own, but I do as far as what I'VE developed for MY rifles and I've already said I had to do a bit of bullet turning because the throater was slightly too small a dia.

For the 720 gr T-Rex powders in the H4931 and slower ranges work very well...I throated for a 4.5" max COAL with that bullet...you can throat a bit more and gain some more powder room and also reduce the initial peak pressure just like Weatherby did to gain a smidgen more velocity at the same pressure.

The loads I shoot are well below the dangerous pressure point. Getting 100-150 fs more velocity in ANY of my rifles isn't worth the wear and tear.

You can use QL, Load from a Disk or the online Powley computer http://kwk.us/powley.html to calculate a load and pressure.

Luck

Tyler,

load sharing can be dangerous. The differences in reamers and throating, barrel dimensions, all that jazz!

However, if you want to PM me I will share some of the data from the two books. Starting loads, so you have some idea of powders.

How's school? Are the girls any prettier, or just thousands more to choose from?

regards,

Rich

Idaho, I have quickload, so pretty much any "big name" bullet I can get some good load data on quickly, I was specifically interested in the 720 grain loads because I'm not confident in entering manual bullet data.

College is nice...PLENTY of those "women"...lots of work though too, especially in engineering!