To The Group:

I got the same call everyone else is getting about jumping off the MRC PH fence. I have decided to go for the 416 Weatherby (460 as a back up plan). Jeff told me that it will take at least 3 down maybe 4. Does anyone have any experience with building up a rifle with a model 70 style action in this caliber? I hear all the stories about the belt causing feeding issues. Why doesn’t my 7mmRemMag, 300wm, 416RemMag have the same feeding issues? Also why don't the magnums get sticky in Africa? It seems the Weatherby is on the black list because it is kinda a snobs cartridge. I have a 416 rem so I’d like something with a little more horse power.

Thanks
Brad

Weatherby doesn't have a bad name because of its snob appeal. It has a bad name because the guns (from Weatherby) have such long throats that even with the factory ammo they are not as accurate as other guns.
I have seen many guns chambered for the weatherby cartridges that had to shoot only reloads because the chambers were cut for accuracy and with the shorter throats pressures spike very high with factory ammo.
If velocity is more important to a gun maker than accuracy I will buy something that shoots.

quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:
Weatherby doesn't have a bad name because of its snob appeal. It has a bad name because the guns (from Weatherby) have such long throats that even with the factory ammo they are not as accurate as other guns.

These sort of statements just amaze me.

I have had 5 Mk5s including 2 Ultralight weights (I still have one Ultralightweight 257Wby) and each of these rifles has easily been capable of shooting under 1" or better.

Another mate of mine has heaps of the damed things and they all seem to shoot well too.

I am sure there will be the odd one out there that will not group well - but I sure as hell have not seen one yet.....

Brad

I think you will find that the model 70 action is too small & short for the 416 Wby. That case is similar to the 416 Rigby and its fatter than the 416 Rem case.

I think you would be better using a CZ 550 or Bruno 602 action - they would require very little modification and probably take 4 down the mag too.

I am sure someone here will be able to enlighten you further....

quote:

Originally posted by MLG:
These sort of statements just amaze me.

I have had 5 Mk5s including 2 Ultralight weights (I still have one Ultralightweight 257Wby) and each of these rifles has easily been capable of shooting under 1" or better.

Another mate of mine has heaps of the damed things and they all seem to shoot well too.

I am sure there will be the odd one out there that will not group well - but I sure as hell have not seen one yet.....

That pretty well sums it up. Though not a big bore, my 338-378 certainly has no issues with accuracy even with factory ammo so I guess that "long throat" BS is just that, BS.

quote:

Originally posted by MLG:
Brad

I think you will find that the model 70 action is too small & short for the 416 Wby. That case is similar to the 416 Rigby and its fatter than the 416 Rem case.

I think you would be better using a CZ 550 or Bruno 602 action - they would require very little modification and probably take 4 down the mag too.

I am sure someone here will be able to enlighten you further....

I would have to agree. The CZ and Brno actions can support the size of the Wby cartridge and you might consider having the standard Weatherby free bore so that you can shoot factory ammo.

Ken....

JMHO, but...
1. over the last 30 years I have yet to be able to duplicate factory velocities in any Wbee rifle.

2. the 416 Wbee is nothing more than the 416 Rigby with a belt and the goofy Wbee shoulder; loaded to higher pressures with a long freebore to keep pressure under 80,000 Psi.

3. you may not find a single round of any of the Wbee cartridges in Africa. Ask your PH about that VS the chances of finding 416 Rigby.

4. You can have a CZ four shot 416 Rigby from your local gunshop, in hand; for under $1000 dollars.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Thanks for all the comments thus far. EVERYONE is missing my question. The MONTANA RIFLE COMPANY (MRC) Professional Hunter PH action is a model 70 style on steriods with a 4.00" mag box so yes it will fit the Weatherby Cartridge. I just want to know if the feeding issues I hear about are specific to the Weatherby Belt or to the MKV action. The way I look at it the PH action is perfect for the Weatherby round. I too am not fond of the Weatherby look it just seems in my neck of the woods the ammo is everywhere. Also I can use the case to build the following
30-378:338-378:366DGW:378wb:416wb:460wb:475A&M:500A2. All of these choices and limited worries about pressure and soft rigby brass. I currently own a 9.3RUM,375H&H,416rem,500Jeffery so the Weatherby would be a maxed out baster rifle rather than a standard hunting rig hence the massive PH action. I'm just too scared to go with the 585 BHE right now.

Thanks Brad

The belt issue has been overblown for a long time. No, they don't feed as smoothly as a non belted cartridge of the same type. Yes, they do feed, just look at the bazillions of 375 H&H guns used every where. The belted cartridges probably feed at least as well as those super short and puggie fads now getting all of the press. I certainly had no trouble getting my 378 Wby to feed...everytime. Make sure the reamer you use has the throat you want.

Thanks for the confirmation of what I always thought. Could someone help me understand the throat issue. I mainly reload my big stuff but could see using factory ammo at times. What is the best solution? Ultimately I may punt and build a 416 Rigby but I'd like to know at least what my options are if I went with the Weatherby good,bad or ugly.

Update: I think I might drop the Weatherby idea unless someone can reassure me that this freebore crap is no big deal in a 416w as far as real world pressure and accuracy if I go with a stock Weatherby chamber. I feel I have opened pandora's box and I can't close it without pinching my fingers.



Thanks Brad

quote:

Originally posted by Brad aka Pill Shooter:
Weatherby good,bad or ugly.

Update: I think I might drop the Weatherby idea unless someone can reassure me that this freebore crap is no big deal in a 416w as far as real world pressure and accuracy if I go with a stock Weatherby chamber. I feel I have opened pandora's box and I can't close it without pinching my fingers.



Thanks Brad

If you build a rifle in any Weatherby Chambering without the Weatherby free bore you will most likely if not certainly have pressure issues shooting factory loaded ammo...
A custom chambering can hold the freebore demension diameter to boe diameter and will not have an adverse effect on accuracy the way the over size factory chambers do..

quote:

Originally posted by Brad aka Pill Shooter:
Thanks for the confirmation of what I always thought. Could someone help me understand the throat issue. I mainly reload my big stuff but could see using factory ammo at times. What is the best solution? Ultimately I may punt and build a 416 Rigby but I'd like to know at least what my options are if I went with the Weatherby good,bad or ugly.

Update: I think I might drop the Weatherby idea unless someone can reassure me that this freebore crap is no big deal in a 416w as far as real world pressure and accuracy if I go with a stock Weatherby chamber. I feel I have opened pandora's box and I can't close it without pinching my fingers.



Thanks Brad

Brad, go look around here for a bit.

A Weatherby forum

You'll get some answers to your Weatherby specific questions.

Ken....

This belt bashing and freebore crap has been floating around for years, its horse hockey that was printed and passed around and some took it to heart..

The belt has been working for a couple of hundred years now and the freebore like any other barrels, some are accurate and some are not. All the old Brnos in M21 and 22 are free bored and they all shoot very well, even with 120 and 130 gr. 7x57 bullets...I have seen a lot of super accurate Wby rifles..I don't like the Wby actions or the stocks, but that's just me as I lean towards the old English styling..

The Weatherby is a fine cartridge but requires a bigger action than the M-70 IMO, but I suppose you could cram it in there, I have seen std. 98 Mausers by Rigby in .416 Rigby and they worked 100%..PH Paul Zorn has been using one for years.

As to needing more power than the .416 Rem. well thats mostly in your head, but rest well knowing the .416 Wby. is a killing machine on buffalo..Never saw it used on elephant but I would bet my boots it will hammer old tembo into eternity...

Well I jumped of the fence a little. Sportsman was clearing out some 416 WB ammo last week and I picked up 4 boxes (3-400grn solids + 1 400grn soft)for $42.50 a box. In looking at the rounds compaired to my 375 H&H, 416 Rem and 500 Jeffery I don't see a big difference. The evil belt is so minimal I had to feel it with my finger nail to convince myself that is was actually there. I still can sell the ammo off if I change my mind. However, I think I will wait to make a move until I get the MRC PH in my hands first. It seems a shame to build a rifle with this massive action in a lighter cartridge ie 375H&H,416Rem,458Lott. Thanks for the input.

Brad

quote:

Originally posted by Brad aka Pill Shooter:
Well I jumped of the fence a little. Sportsman was clearing out some 416 WB ammo last week and I picked up 4 boxes (3-400grn solids + 1 400grn soft)for $42.50 a box. In looking at the rounds compaired to my 375 H&H, 416 Rem and 500 Jeffery I don't see a big difference. The evil belt is so minimal I had to feel it with my finger nail to convince myself that is was actually there. I still can sell the ammo off if I change my mind. However, I think I will wait to make a move until I get the MRC PH in my hands first. It seems a shame to build a rifle with this massive action in a lighter cartridge ie 375H&H,416Rem,458Lott. Thanks for the input.

Brad

I too have a number of Weatherbys and echo other's comments about reliability and feeding issues - I have had none and know of noone who has first hand.
There were two guys in my club who had gone from factory barrels to custom barrels and neither of these had any freebore. Neither of these two gents had any signs of pressure problems with either factory or home brewed rounds (one was a 338-378 and the other was a 460). I'd ask the question of pressure and non-freebore barrels on this Weatherby Forum. Ed Weatherby as well as his tech and custom shop personnel often address questions here.
Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad aka Pill Shooter:
Thanks for all the comments thus far. EVERYONE is missing my question. The MONTANA RIFLE COMPANY (MRC) Professional Hunter PH action is a model 70 style on steriods with a 4.00" mag box so yes it will fit the Weatherby Cartridge. I just want to know if the feeding issues I hear about are specific to the Weatherby Belt or to the MKV action. The way I look at it the PH action is perfect for the Weatherby round. I too am not fond of the Weatherby look it just seems in my neck of the woods the ammo is everywhere. Also I can use the case to build the following
30-378:338-378:366DGW:378wb:416wb:460wb:475A&M:500A2. All of these choices and limited worries about pressure and soft rigby brass. I currently own a 9.3RUM,375H&H,416rem,500Jeffery so the Weatherby would be a maxed out baster rifle rather than a standard hunting rig hence the massive PH action. I'm just too scared to go with the 585 BHE right now.

Thanks Brad

.. Ya Brad ;; its called knee jerk selective reading .. Kindof like selective listening ,[ what my wife occasionally does ]

Anyway ... I really like the 416 Whby , but don,t have one ,... I like the Rem mag better ... For me it,s fast enough .... I think the issue about the belt is a bunch of horse turds .......ALL ,AND i MEAN [ ALL] my belted rounds feed slicker than the non belted rounds I have or have had .....The one exception is my 9.3x62 ...feeds about as easy as my 416 Rem mag .... Nothing comes close to my 458 Win mag .....The 375 Ruger , not as easy as the 375 H&H . 338 RUM , not nearly as easy as the 338 Win mag in a Ruger 77 mk2 , the 300 RUM and Short RUM arn,t as easy as the 300 Win mag ....EXCETERA ETCETERA
....

If I had that big action I would sure use a big round in it and not a std. 416 Rem..

I would perhaps go with a .404 Jefferys, 500 Jefferys or 505 Gibbs...It deserves a big ole case...and the .416 Wby is a good round also and the .460 is hell and damnation on anything that walks, talks, breaths or crawls...and on both ends...