Hi all. I just got this from the ATF. Still waiting on a written reply. This should clearup some issues that it can be legal with the proper paperwork and tax paid.

Mr. Larsen: Thank you for visiting ATF's Website. As stated on our site,
generally, we do not answer technical questions via e-mail, but I contacted
our Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) and was advised the following:

"A weapon made from a rifle having a barrel less than 16 inches in length or
an overall length of less than 26 inches is a firearm subject to the
provisions of Title 26, United States Code, Chapter 53, the National
Firearms Act (NFA). A weapon made from a shotgun having a barrel less than
18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches is also a
firearm subject to the provisions of the NFA. In order for you to make such
a firearm from a rifle or shotgun, you must first submit an Application to
Make and Register a Firearm (ATF Form 1), pay $200 making tax, and receive
approval of the application. If possession of such a firearm is prohibited
under your State law or local ordinances, the application cannot be
approved."

If you have any further questions, please call them on 202-927-7910.
Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Hill, Thomas D.
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 1:15 PM
To: FEA Directorate
Subject: FW: Mail responce time? making firearm?

Form 1 can be ordered here:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm

Lar45
Because I like double rifles so much I would love to have a Howda pistol. I have handled one original, it was an underlever with a bore of 577. Wish I had bought it.
I think the best way to get a new made Howda without all the BATF paperwork would be to contact Butch Searcy and see if/and how much it would cost to produce them.
I would suggest using a cut down 577 Nitro case. To use any smaller of a bore would be defeating the purpose of the Howda, which is BIG BORE, BIG PUNCH with a manageable amount of recoil. [After all you must use it with one hand, because the other hand is holding on to the elephant ].
Seriously by keeping the ballistics in line with the original Howda ctgs, we might have a handgun we could put to good use.
With the bbls regulated to say about 40 yards it would be good for pig, black bear over bait or to "repel boarders", its original function.
It would also be handy for those occasional coup de gras shots that come up once and a while.

I like the idea of making one from scratch without the paperwork for 577 x 1.5 inch, set up for a 650 grain slug at about 800 fps. 10 inch barrels.

500grains
Do you think 800fps is fast enough for good penetration??? Does any one have any info on the original ballistics of Howda ctgs?
I think this is the right aproach to take... Velocity for velocities sake is unnecessary here.
We just need enough for adequate penetration.
The pistol needs to be "shootable", just ask the fella with the 45/70 Howda and the big bumb on his head.

If I lived in a state that allowed AOW, I'd get a 12ga double barrel shotgun and knock the barrel to 10" or so and install a pistol grip. Shoot slugs from it and ammo is no prob and cheap. It'd be a great camping gun, #7.5 shot during the day for small game and 4 buck at night for 'unwanted intruders'. If I wanted 'brass' ammo for nostalgia sake, I'd get a simple 12ga shell reloader and roll my own. Aaaaah Minnesota, the state where nothing is allowed.

I do not know what penetration 800 fps would give, but I think the Howda would be used for things like bear and pigs where penetration is not all that big a deal. I would not take my howda out after cape buffalo or elephant.

Having someone like Searcy manufacature them from scratch would get you around the short-barrelled rifle/shotgun classification, but if the bore diameter is greater than half an inch, that puts you in destructive device territory (or AOW if it's a smoothbore.) As far as I know, BATF makes exceptions to the half inch rule for "sporting" rifles and shotguns, but not for handguns. I'm fairly certain Bowen had to go through the BATF and register his 577 Redhawk as a DD.

BMG, the way I understand the AOW rules, it would have to be manufactured as a "smooth-bore pistol". If it ever had a buttstock attached, it's a shotgun, and cutting down the barrel would make it a "short-barrelled shotgun".

Cannon

[ 04-22-2003, 01:17: Message edited by: Cannon ]

Cannon Re. A howda pistol [over .50cal] is a destructive device.... Damn bureaucracy....
However if a Tiger got into a wicker basket with me , I WOULD WANT A DISTRUCTIVE DEVICE.

Lar45,

Did you contact the manufacturer and the organization I suggested?

Lar sorry about the delay in posting,can't find a digital in my neck of the wood to use,sorry no pics.
If you can get you hands on a copy of "Rifle" May issue there is an article on the Snider rifle by Ross it shows the 577 snider cartridge,its the same as used in the ole mans Howda

Roger, was that Paladin armoury? I did and they said it would be no problem to build. They would help with the paperwork and then transfer to a dealer in my state.

My 16bore howda was delivered today. The case is 1.6" long. I've made a couple on the lathe from 50BMG cases. The primers pop when the hammers drop. Now I just have to make a 70 cal mold. the bore measures .702".
pics here:
http://members.fortunecity.com/howda/howda.html

Replicas of Antiques are not supposed to be covered under the GCA. I don't know what it would take to get a new manufatured over 50 cal howda declared a replica, but it might be worth looking into? Maybe send off another letter to the BATF tech department.

Lar,

Since Paladin is the manufacturer, send them a nice letter with a couple of pics of what you have in mind. Include that you got the idea from accuratereloading board as "so many people were interested in this type of firearm". The not so subtle hint would be for Paladin to make a run of Howdas. That way you don't have to deal with the paperwork.

You need to get a pic posted of that firebreather and I DO mean it sounds like a firebreathing sidearm!~!

I just read on the other thread that the bore is riffled? Does this mean there are grooves to act as shot spreaders? Are they inset like rifling or extend into the bore?

[ 04-22-2003, 10:03: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

That Howda is totally cool.

The bore is fully rifled. I'll try to take some pics of the inside of it. My digital camera is kind of lacking though. Paladinarmoury.com said they would modify an existing shotgun or rifle to howda dimensions and make sure it was legally registered...