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Picture of Tanoose
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Would like to hear your opinions on the weatherby DGR rifles in 416 and 460 weatherby for africa. And how about the 416 foe Alaska. You dont hear much about them .
 
Posts: 869 | Location: Bellerose,NY USA | Registered: 27 July 2001Reply With Quote
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Awsome calibers but for D/G maybe not the best rifles. I do like my 338/378 Mark V though, once you get past the load from the bottom, straight line feed, only 2 down they're great.
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Southwest B.C. | Registered: 16 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Oh, come on. A weathery is not a dgr.

Big Grin

On a more serious note, check this out:

quote:


Rifle Lessons learned from the Zimbabwe Professional Hunter Proficiency Exam

By Don Heath

Every year Zimbabwe holds two events which provide the perfect testing ground for rifles. These are the Rifa Professional Hunter and Guides training/refresher course, and the actual proficiency exam itself. As shooting is an important attribute of both a hunter and a guide, marksmanship and speed and dexterity of handling and reloading a rifle under great stress are fully tested with quite high grades required to pass. Consequently a fair amount of time at the Rifa refresher course is set aside to riflemanship. Most of the hunters have grown up with firearms, but a great many of the guides have simply grown up in the bush and the only hunting they may have done before commencing with their apprenticeships has been with spear or bow. The confidence with a rifle needed to protect one’s clients in a close quarters contact with lion, elephant, hippo or buff requires complete familiarity with the rifle and a good deal of practice as well. During this year’s Rifa course about 600 heavy calibre rounds went down range whilst on the proficiency some 50 shots went into dangerous game and over 500 crashing down range on a variety of shoots. All in all the five day refresher course and the week long exam provide an excellent opportunity to evaluate the different makes of rifle.

Most rifles work perfectly on range when zeroing a rifle or shooting off sticks in an accuracy test. A surprisingly large number fall apart as soon as the pressure is on and you have to shoot and reload in a hurry. Ten rifles out of 32 on the Rifa course came up with a problem, whilst 17 out of 51 came up short in one way or another on the actual exam. Only training can render one competent to carry a rifle in the bush and that is not the topic of this article, but it pains me to see poorly paid apprentices shelling out hard earned cash for sub standard rifles, especially sub standard new rifles. Also many of the student/candidates were well aware of the flaws with their rifles, but with all the hassles of licencing plus the costs involved in doing a trade, they were unable to change them. This article is intended as a guide so new purchasers don’t get burned.

To set the tone, I think nobody sums up the American attitude to rifles better than W.W. Greener in his classic book The Gun and its Development (1910 edition). “In no country are better sportsmen to be found than in the United States of America, nor does any country posses keener buyers or better men of business, yet in no country is so much worthless rubbish of the (mass production) gun-factories offered for sale. The Boers are a race of sportsmen, but it is of no use to offer them rubbish at any price, and the author can hardly believe that the astute American will sacrifice everything to cheapnessâ€. That fortnight in the Zambezi valley showed that not a lot has changed in the last 90 years except that nasty rather than purely cheap describes most of America’s offerings in the dangerous rifle field.


I’ll start with my least favourite rifle:- the Weatherby. We don’t often see them out here, thank goodness. The one we had this year exhibited the usual Weatherby failing of going off when the safety catch was disengaged. Like all I’ve seen with this problem, they work fine on the range. It is only after they have been bounced, bumped or jolted whilst loaded and on safe that they do this. I’m sure the problem is correctable and not all do it, however, this one would also not extract at all after the eighth round. It showed decidedly sticky extraction after the first three shots and finally died on number eight. It gives me great pleasure than to dig out my 2lb hammer and beat the bolt of a new rifle open whilst giving the owner a lecture on the benefits of reloading. Weatherby factory ammo always gives extraction problems and needs to be down loaded for use in hot conditions. The .460 is notorious and this .416 proved no different.


Remington 700 safety catch - a persistent problem. Too small and located on the “wrong†side of the action for a right-handed person. Frequently accidentally knocked on during reloading

Remington 700. The 700 may be a very fine hunting rifle. I don’t know because I’ve never used one, but I do know that it is a piss poor dangerous game rifle especially in .416 Rem calibre. Apart from the odd inexplicable misfire, a broken extractor cost us an elephant wounded and lost at Rifa. This is not the first year that I’ve seen a broken extractor on a Remington 700 in .416 either. In addition they are just about the hardest rifle to refill the magazine in a hurry. My memories this year of students and candidates using them is that of youngsters frantically trying to thrust cartridges into the mag, only to have a double feed, the rounds pop straight back out or many other problems. A two round reload took on average, twice as long with the Model 700's as it did with just about any other make of rifle. The difference between the Remington and the Weatherby is that the latter can be downloaded a little so as to operate flawlessly and the safety fixed, whilst I do not know that anything can be done with the Remingtons except to re-barrel them to a plains game cartridge and leave them at home when out after the dangerous stuff. To be fair though, all of the extraction problems seem to be confined to rifles in .416 and .375. and they seem reasonably reliable in .458 provided you are prepared to tolerate the awkwardness of the reload. I am not. A good single shot or even a Weatherby is a better choice.


The Remington’s push-feed bolt - the plunger/ejector works fine. The pathetically small sprung-loaded extractor breaks frequently and doesn’t always extract the case.

Then we come to one that surprises me. Ruger. The early Ruger M77's with the non rotating claw extractors but still a push feed mechanism, in .458 Win could be relied upon to jam if the bolt was worked quickly. In the 1980's the National Parks culling teams found this out the hard way and the new Rugers were quickly disposed of or issued to stations where a heavy rifle was seldom required. The new MkII Ruger with a proper controlled feed seemed to be a vast improvement and were reputed to work a whole lot better and of course come at a top dollar price. I learned differently. All but one out of seven I’ve seen or handled this year (6 in .416 Rigby and one .458 Win) would not eject if the bolt was opened vigorously. Slow down just a fraction and they throw the empty case half way into the next province. For a client coming out to Africa this may be acceptable. Any really fast fancy shooting is going to be the PH’s.

For the Professional Hunter or Guide though, a rifle that is guaranteed not to eject when worked at speed is a death sentence waiting to happen. The fault lies with the sprung loaded ejector that springs into place as the bolt is withdrawn. Work the bolt at a moderate speed and the ejector is in place to cleanly throw the case clear. Work the bolt fast and the ejector is still on its way up when the case passes over it. A few will work provided the ejector is scrupulously clean and well oiled but many will not do even that (and how do you keep it clean AND oiled in the usual dusty conditions?). A much stronger spring and a little polishing of the raceway that it fits into may cure the problem, but they are not safe as they come from the factory. A local gun shop tells me that they have sent two new rifles back this year because of this problem, and our local top gunsmith tells me that while most can be made to work perfectly, some cannot. Ruger needs to wake up, their No.1, single shot rifle is a far safer and more dependable weapon than their bolt action.

The Browning A Bolt. The Jury is still out on this as there are very few around at present and all the ones I’ve seen have been left handed models. One out of two had a problem with the magazine. Beating the floor plate back down with a rock is nearly as much fun as taking a hammer to a Weatherby. I must say I really LIKE the safety catch. It is certainly the best out of any of the rifles I’ve used this year, but I’m not sure on the push feed and extractor. Time will tell, but I have no intention of being the guinea pig.


Top - a pre ‘64 Winchester M70.
Bottom - Ruger M77 - fitted with the best option in safety catches - a shotgun-type tang safety.

Winchesters new M70 with the controlled feed back, is light years ahead of the old version which just about rivalled the Remington 700. I have only three complaints about the new ones. The bolt anti bind rail on one of them bent and briefly jammed the rifle, but I threw it away and the rifle worked just fine after that. The stocks need to be properly bedded and pinned. They are a good shape, nice wood, but they crack (and worse) if you don’t take them to somebody and have the bedding seen to before you start throwing a few hundred rounds down range. My biggest gripe about the Winchester is that the safety catch is on the WRONG side. On the right handed model, the safety catch is perfect for a left hander and visa versa on the left handed edition. Heavens to Hiawatha, surely somebody at US Repeating Arms (who make Winchester) has walked outside and tried to swing the rifle up for a snap shot from either the trail or from a sling! You cannot grab the pistol grip and take the safety off in one movement, and on average it took Winchester owners a second longer to disengage the safety and fire the first shot compared to Mausers or Browning A Bolts. Time and fumbling around with an awkward safety can get you killed in a tight corner, and the real insult is that they make both, and that the current “left handed†safety is quicker and easier to use for a right hander than a Mauser type “flag†safety. More and more PH’s are seeing the light and fitting a good Ghost ring aperture sight to their dangerous game rifles so I suppose the pathetic excuse of a rear sight that Winchester fits at the factory can be ignored.

Interarms Mk X. Apart from the fact that the barrels are soft and wear out very quickly, these are intrinsically sound rifles that are simply shoddily put together. They are famed for springing the magazine floor plate open and dumping the contents on the firers feet. Never seen one that wouldn’t feed reliably though, and with a little bit of gun smithing to make the safety catch more positive (it is also on the “wrong†side) so that it doesn’t get accidentally swept on as the bolt is opened (or accidentally knocked off in the bush) and the stock properly bedded to cure the “magazine dump†they can be made into very workable rifles. They are though, very definitely rifles that you take first to your gunsmith and only then into the bush as the two students at Rifa discovered.

That sums up the American offerings for this year. The Winchester is definitely the best, but it still requires work and a replacement safety and rear sight when it comes out of the box before it can be considered serviceable.


The Bruno (CZ) 550 - A good basic rifle with Mauser-type extractor and excellent sights. The safety catch though is small, and again on the wrong side for a right hander.

Most of the European made rifles are priced well out of the reach of all learners and even most qualified PH’s. The one Mannlicher in evidence this year worked superbly with much to recommend it if you can stomach the price. By far the most common big game rifles we see here, and the biggest single make on the exam, was the Bruno/CZ.

This is one of the most rugged but also the cheapest heavy rifles available in Africa and has been for many years now. There have also been a variety of different models. The early ones dating from the fifties and sixties were absolutely tops (I have a 1950 model), and these probably represent the best buys on the second hand market along with the Fabrique National made Mausers. The current models coming out are not bad, but far from perfect. CZ has finally got around to doing something about the safety catch which was perfect on the 1950's models (which was superior to an original Mauser) and singularly awful there after as it worked the wrong way around (back to fire) and was located on the wrong side of the action. The safety still isn’t great, being small and still located on the wrong side of the receiver for a right handed person. It also comes on and off too easily. The biggest problem that arose with them was the firer accidentally knocking on the safety whilst manipulating the bolt. At least five Bruno/CZ owners had trouble with this either during the training sessions or in the exam.


The standard by which others are judged. A standard Mauser - serviceable safety catch, claw extractor and decent sights

Another problem patently apparent with all of the .458 Win models is that they will not reliably feed soft point ammunition until quite a lot of work has been done to the magazine box and feed. The .458 Win case is simply too short for the huge Bruno magnum action (which comfortably accommodates the .416 Rigby round), and the rounds slide around in that cavernous magazine under recoil and then feeding problems occur. The best thing anybody can do with a Bruno/CZ in .458 Win is to have a competent gunsmith re-chamber it to .458 Lott. This not only solves the feeding troubles but also gets away from the problems of the .458 Win cartridge. The only problem now though is that the stock needs to be properly bedded and pinned or it will crack. The other interesting phenomena arose with some of the older rifles chambered in .375 H&H. The chambers were fantastically oversize, and the spent cartridge cases emerge looking like an Ackley or Weatherby improved round. The head space is fine and it is not dangerous but forget about reloading. One thing is for sure, a little dirt in the action isn’t going to tie up these rifles!

The remainder of the field was made up of Mauser actioned rifles. The original Mauser in .404 and the FN in .458 worked great, as expected. The trouble for a learner Hunter or Guide is that these makes are hard to come by. Original Mausers are beginning to wear out, and apart from .404 and 9,3x62, most are chambered for rounds unsuitable for serious hunting. As soon as you see a Mauser chambered in .458 or .375 you know that it is a conversion, (see my comments on custom rifles below). FN’s are seldom seen on the second hand market. They represent the peak in the Mauser rifles development, and those lucky enough to own one seldom find a reason good enough to sell it.


The good (left), and the bad (right) in open sights. The Winchester offering on the right is virtually useless in a hurry.

“Custom Riflesâ€. The Mauser is one of my all time favourite rifles, but apart from a very few original rifles all the ones we see are “custom†built. This year’s exam reiterated that a “custom†rifle can vary greatly in quality. Two were fine, the other two not. There are an awful lot of armourers out there posing as gunsmiths, and only the best gunsmiths should be allowed to build a dangerous game rifle. The biggest problem with all custom Mausers occurs with the feed. Mausers were originally built with the magazine boxes machined to match the cartridge for which the rifle was being chambered. The magazine box on a 9,3 is quite different from that for a 8x57. Too many “gunsmiths†simply screw on a .458 barrel and forget that the magazine box must be altered (best option) or the feed rails extensively worked. I had a .308 Mauser that had been converted from a 7x57. It gave endless feeding trouble until I got it to a top ‘smith. The conversion from 8x57 to .308 works fine but the 7mm magazine box is too narrow at the front and problems arise. One custom Mauser on the exam would not feed more than one round from the magazine and even loading a second round half way in so that it could be chambered (giving the shooter two rounds before a reload) was a bother. The fancy stock, the Ghost ring sight, etc did not alter the fact that this was a useless rifle. One of the two candidates who’s custom Mausers worked on the exam told me that she had had feeding trouble and had taken the rifles to a competent gun smith to have the problem solved. It had cost a considerable amount of time and money to get her rifle into full working order. The last was from a local supplier of custom rifles who knows about such things and the requirements for absolute reliability, and it worked great. I retain an intrinsic mistrust of any “custom†rifle unless I’ve tried it thoroughly and I know who built it. That is the biggest advantage of purchasing a new “custom†rifle locally. It’s guaranteed and you can take it back at the slightest sign of trouble. It should also come with all the required “extras†such as sights, safety and stock bedding already attended to.

We didn’t see any of the English made rifles this year, but as a warning to potential purchasers there is a considerable difference between an English top grade rifle and a second or third class weapon. Back when they were originally sold the purchaser knew what he was getting, but these days any rifle with an English makers name on it is taken as being a good quality rifle. This is decidedly not true. Perhaps the two best examples are the Westley-Richards .425 “White Hunter†models and some (but decidedly not all) of the Cogswell and Harrison .404's. Westley Richards turned out a great many superb .425's but they also produced a cheap line intended for government service or the “native†trade, known as the “White Hunter†model. These were built on war surplus K98 Mauser actions, without due attention to magazine box dimensions or the feed rails. They make a Weatherby cross Remington 700 look like a dream rifle. Much the same can be said for some of the Cogswells built on war surplus P14 actions. The second grade guns work fine, but the third grade weapons are on a par with the “White Hunterâ€.

That completes the overview on this season’s rifles. Too much rubbish is being sold, at vastly inflated prices that will get a tyro hunter killed. It annoys me, to put it mildly!

My last observations were on ammunition. Heavy calibre ammo is expensive, especially for apprentices who are on nominal salaries. The ammo produced for the training and exams tends to be old and scrounged from any available source so all sorts of “ammo†related problems occur. Most ammo is remarkably long lived. I and a few others are still using vintage Kynoch ammo in our rifles for training with only the occasional hangfire, and those confined to early (pre 1960) lots. Two calibres though have a very definite shelf life. .458 Win mag and .416 Rem. A quick glance at the round will often reveal that the bullet has begun to move forward out of the case and the factory crimp is gone as the bullet moves out past the cannelure. I presume that this phenomenon is caused by the heavily compressed powder charge expanding with the heat or perhaps the brass just gets weak after a number of years of holding a bullet back that is constantly trying to pop out of the case and begins to let go. Whatever the reason, this causes two problems. Firstly the cartridges often no longer fit in the magazine perfectly causing feeding trouble (particularly noticeable in short actioned rifles like FN’s, Interarms or Mausers). The second is that velocity becomes erratic. How old is old? And how long does this take to occur? I have seen the bullets creeping out of the cases on most makes of .458 ammo but it is often difficult to determine exactly how old. In 1991, however, National Parks purchased a huge batch of A Square monolithics for use in the culling programme. Almost all of this ammo is now beginning to push the bullets out of the case. In 1996 I chronographed a selection of this ammo, which was then still in good condition. Velocity averaged 2174fps with a mean deviation of 37fps. After seeing what was happening to the ammo, I chronographed the same batches again recently. Mean velocity was 1780fps and mean deviation was 180fps. A few rounds where the bullets had not begun to pull themselves were fine delivering the original specs, but most is now reject - less than ten years from date of manufacture to throw away! For hunters this is not often a problem since their ammo gets used up at a regular rate, but with too many guides, the “good†carry ammo sits in their gun belts for years.


Winchester M70 safety catch - awkward for a right-hander.

.416 Rem is another problem cartridge in this regard. One candidate had some fairly fresh (so he thought) Federal trophy bonded rounds. 17 out of twenty in the box were beginning to shed their bullets. Velocity for the 400grn bullets varied from 2120fps to 2390fps. Another disquieting fact about the .416 Rem cartridge is beginning to show. Inexplicable pressure problems in the occasional factory round. As mentioned under the Remington rifles, the model 700's in .416 seem to break extractors with unreasonable regularity. Is this due to pressure problems with the cartridge as much as design failure of the rifle? I have seen stuck cases and had to beat the bolts open on other makes of rifle chambered for this round before this last exam. Nimrod cartridges also tell me that they have had great difficulty coming up with a good load for the .416 Rem due to the occasional pressure spike. PMP in South Africa reported likewise.

One last, fairly humorous incident occurred which simply confirms my case against Weatherby. An apprentice PH was using a rifle chambered for the .375 H&H. He had a whole pile of ammo given to him by a client, which was .375 H&H made by Weatherby. He also had a few rounds though that were also head stamped “Weatherby†and marked .375 but they were .375 Weatherby rather than Holland & Holland. I’ve never seen a rifle chambered for .375 Weatherby but the rounds sure didn’t fit into chamber of the said fellow’s rifle and caused an almighty jam. It was during a training session at Rifa so we all simply had a good laugh.
The lesson though remains. Cycle each round through the chamber of your rifle before you put it in the magazine or your cartridge belt. Reloads especially but even the best factory ammo may be damaged or not quite what it seems at first glance.


[pictures omitted - see link below]

http://www.african-hunter.com/lessons_learned.htm
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Golly jee, I guess all the yanks in North America should destroy all of our American guns according to this guy. It's a wonder any Americans have ever survived a big game hunt in Africa!! While not in Africa, I have owned 2- 460 weatherbys for a number of years and I have never had a problem with extraction. Yes, I was using the older hot 2700 ft/sec loads. But... It does get hotter over there, so I guess I am just lucky.
 
Posts: 929 | Location: southern illinois | Registered: 29 July 2006Reply With Quote
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Something non-glare like 'Euromark' in .416 would work nicely for recreational hunter, but I would load it to 2400+/-50fps mark.
When your number is up no rifle type or make will make much difference, so there is no point of worrying about it. Just make sure it functions correctly before you get there.
 
Posts: 1126 | Registered: 03 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MTM:
Awsome calibers but for D/G maybe not the best rifles. I do like my 338/378 Mark V though, once you get past the load from the bottom, straight line feed, only 2 down they're great.


I don't know if you can retro fit your rifle but they do offer a factory magazine that holds one more round now. On the synthetic rifles it doesn't look bad but I'm not sure about the ones with wood stocks.

I had a Weatherby DGR in .458 Lott for a little while (bought from Heritage Arms) and it was a nice rifle but I ended up selling it and settling on a .375 H&H and a .470 Capstick instead.
 
Posts: 575 | Location: VA | Registered: 20 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Hello Tanoose,
I lived, worked, hunted, guided, thrived in Alaska for several years and have yet to hunt in Africa(will in a year or so) but trust me when I tell you there are animals in Alaska that definitely qualify for dangerous game in the purest sense of the phrase. Furthermore, it is often very cold, freezing rain, wearing hip boots, very close quarters and your rifle does need to function when required.
Experienced several hunters using Weatherby's and no problems, but perhaps they were just lucky at the time. Always thought they were just a bit on the Hollywood style and never used one myself for hunting. They shoot well with their ammo I find, but personally would find the current offerings by Ruger in the RSM's more suited to the dangerous game role. Similar price range, more classic styling, true Mauser design, a bit on heavy side, but that does cut down on recoil and I happen to prefer a heavier rifle for off hand shooting. I would avoid the 460 offering for it is significantly stouter recoil wise over the 458 Lott and not sure any better at taking game?? In any case, if you like the Weatherby go for it, but it probably will not perform as a PH would want such a rifle to perform. Again, you are not the PH are you?? Good Luck
 
Posts: 577 | Registered: 19 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Never been a fan of WBYs, however in the last couple of years I've been working with a couple in 378 and 338/378. Both USA built guns, don't know if that matters but I very much like these rifles. Very well made and very accurate. I only shoot hand loads but full power with absolutely not extraction problems. The limited mag capacity doesn't bother my at all. They feed super slick with the straight line feed and overall make excellent general hunting rifles. If I was going strickly D/G hunting my Mod.70 CRF .416 Rem would get the nod. though.
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Southwest B.C. | Registered: 16 November 2005Reply With Quote
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I'm not sure why it is but when I think of DGR the name weatherby never comes to mind......and the weatherby line of cartridges consists only of the 300!

As a PGR only the Vangaard is considered and not the Mark V


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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I have had experience with several Weatherby rifles over the years in calibers from 257 to 460.
All of them have fed and extracted 100% except one.

I have quite a bit of shooting experience with 9 Wby DGR rifles in 375 H&H and 4 in 458 Win Mag.

We shot these rifles quite a bit with no problems except for one 458 that had to have the mag box replaced.

The 458 I had worked well, it had around 2000 rounds through it.

Most importantly it worked on THE DAY and saved my life.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Thanks everyone i was just curious as to why you dont hear much about the Weatherbys.I myself haven't bought that big bore yet but when i do its a choice between the Ruger 77 Magnum and the CZ american safari Caliber choice is still a problem but i have narrowed it down to the .416 Rigby or the 458 Lott.I have also decideed not to try to have a one gun for Africa and Alaska . My alaskan rifle will be a stainless synthetic in 338 or 375 and it would be a ruger 77 or a winchester M70 .Thanks for your replies ojn the weatherbys. Later Tanoose
 
Posts: 869 | Location: Bellerose,NY USA | Registered: 27 July 2001Reply With Quote
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I have a friend that loves Weatherbys and uses a 416 for Africa. So far he has had zero problems with any of them on any hunts. I have shot many of his rifles and all are accurate and function well.

I do not own a Weatherby but from his experience they seem pretty good.

BigB
 
Posts: 1401 | Location: Northwest Wyoming | Registered: 13 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I own three weatherby mark V, 270 wby,340 wby,416 wby they all work great and they are very accurate never had a problem.
 
Posts: 318 | Registered: 09 February 2006Reply With Quote
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I own two Weatherby's a .257 mag and a MUCH Modified .460. I've been looking for someone appropriate to sell them to. I'll know him if he still wears plaid polyester pants. I've had probably a dozen others pass through my hands. They passed on, because of incredibly bad problems. I've had weatherby's with barrels missing 4 inch sections of land in the middle of the barrel ( Yup you can guess how that shot) non-concentric chambers, off center muzzzel brakes. Bomb-bay floorplates. and a bunch more. Probably the worst quality control I've ever seen in any one gun brand. In Africa if you show up with a Weatherby your immediately labeled as a pimp. The .460 has a bad reputation for poor penetration and most here feel it is best loaded down to 2400fps. You cannot get the advertized 2700fps out of it even in a 26 inch barrel without bolt LOCKING pressures( not sticking, LOCKING). I'll never buy another. -Rob


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Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Tanoose,

You can hunt Alaska with pretty fancy rifles but the bushrats up here seem to gravitate to stainless synthetic M77's and M70 and other such tools. Your plan is perfect in aquiring a SS .338 or .375 for up here. Besides, it gives you an excellent excuse for another rifle!
 
Posts: 1143 | Location: Kodiak | Registered: 01 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I think Robgunbuilder hits the nail when he is talking about lousy quality control from the factory. And, that is of course a grave problem.
Add to that very high preassure factory loadings, and it can be a reall mess.
Combined with buyers with more money than wits, they became lethal in the wrong end.

Almost everybody on this forum is a reloader, and almost nobody would go to Africa without having their gun checked by a competent gunsmith - and then there is really no problem - on the contrary, I would say it would be my push-feed of choise.

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
I'm not sure why it is but when I think of DGR the name weatherby never comes to mind......


Easy answer, Vapo, you've spent to much time on theese pages! Wink


I have built quite a few custom guns on the MarkV action, and my clients have never had problems with their guns in any corner of the world.

The article of Don Heath is not gospel, but a description of his clients guns, presentet to him in the camp - and therefore speaks as much of the clients as of their guns.

Or can a gun be blamed for its owners abuse?


Bent Fossdal
Reiso
5685 Uggdal
Norway

 
Posts: 1707 | Location: Norway | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Sooooo, what I'm reading about Africa is:
As a client, then, the Wbee is okay...except the staff will snicker every time you take it out of the case.

As the PH, dependability is more desirable than a couple dozen tastefully inlays and some acanthus or grapevine carving.

As a future client, I'll be good to go with my CZ 416 or 9,3x62; and in the mix with my M30 550 Gibbs Magnum.

I can handle that...

Rich
DRSS
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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I own and have owned quite a few Weatherbys in just about every caliber. Rifle for rifle, they've all been sub half MOA shooters and superb quality and fit.

That myth about showing up in africa with one and being labeled a pimp is bullshit. Sure there are many who don't care for them, but many, those who know, are aware that Weatherby makes some awesome calibers. Also that other myth about the 460 not penetrating is even more ridiculous. In virtually every penetration test performed, including many by members of this forum, the 460 Weatherby with the right bullets was the "penetration "king".

Any penetration issues the Weathebys might have had were with conventional lead/cup bullets but not so with the new bonded premiums or the monometals. Having said all of that, if one makes the argument they don't care for the "look" or the fact they prefer a CRF over a push feed that is certainly a fair point of dissent, but the other stuff is nothing but guff. jorge


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DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE
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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I'm a 460 DGR user..also have it in 378. I've taken my 460 to Zim and it performed just fine. I used factory 450 Gr Barnes X bullets. My buff was taken with one shot. My rifle ejected the cartridge just fine. Smooth as silk after 1200 rounds! The bullet went through the shoulder and rested on the outer skin on the opposite side. The only issues I have with the DGR rifle is with the rear sight!. There are elevation adjustments but no windage adjustments. A divot made by a punch on the base holds the rear sight in place so the sight can be adjusted. As for as weatherby not being able to hit the broad side of a barn: 75 yards.. (1.75X6 leopold setting 4X)bench rest ..450 Gr factory Barnes X.



just wanting the weatherby side of info to get posted!

steve
 
Posts: 297 | Location: california | Registered: 20 January 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Sooooo, what I'm reading about Africa is:
As a client, then, the Wbee is okay...except the staff will snicker every time you take it out of the case.

As the PH, dependability is more desirable than a couple dozen tastefully inlays and some acanthus or grapevine carving.

As a future client, I'll be good to go with my CZ 416 or 9,3x62; and in the mix with my M30 550 Gibbs Magnum.

I can handle that...

Rich
DRSS


when the staff pays for my trip and the rifle of their choice then they can snicker all they want!
 
Posts: 297 | Location: california | Registered: 20 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Nice shooting AKA!!

My 460 is coming and has a 2x7 Leupold. I was going to do a 100 yard zero.

I'm listing to suggestions from a guy who's fired 1200 rounds and appreciate any advice.

450 grain Barnes X (original not the new triple shock) I have 5 boxes of factory ammo. Also I have about 200 X bullets. Did you reload any rounds yourself? If so could you give me your favorite powder and overall case length with the 450 grain bullets? I was just going to start by seating to the same length as factory.

I was also going to try woodleigh and swift bullets. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Keith
 
Posts: 350 | Location: Henderson, NV | Registered: 24 July 2004Reply With Quote
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