For those who have first hand experience do you think there is a difference in performance on game between the 375 H&H and the faster 375s. Saaed is probably the best one to answer this Q, I hope you see this post!

Aaron I know you use the 375 ultra mag as well...

I know bullets play a big role but am wondering if the 300fps or so increased velocity makes a big difference!

Thanks,

Arjun

Of all the 375H&H rifles we have had through our workshop, I have never had any that exceeded 2500 fps with 300 grain factory ammo.

Some actually would not even reach that speed.

And as I wanted to have a 375 caliber that I can use for everything, at all reasonable ranges, we made the 375/404. Which is a kissing cousin of the 375RUM.

Also, with copper bullets like the Barnes X and our own Walterhogs, we found that best penetration one gets is at around 2800 fps.

We have a 375/416 Rigby, and that drives a 300 grain bullet at 3140 fps, but at that speed the penetration was not very good at all.

reddy375,
There ya go. Did Saeed cover it or what?

To elaborate on his comments and some of my own:

Some Remington .375 H&H factory ammo around the latest turn of the century used Swift bullets, 300-grain A-Frames.
I chronographed them at an honest 2530 fps from a 24" barrel.
But they pierced primers in my rifle, and that lot of ammo may have been recalled, IIRC, or should have been.
Subsequently same brand was delivering about 2450 fps with no dramas, and that is what most factory loads do, in most factory .375 H&H rifles with 24" barrels.

But it is pretty easy for the careful handloader to get the classic 2530 fps with most 300-grainers, in some .375 H&H rifles with 24" barrel.
Hornady even claimed 2700 fps with their pixie dust loads (was it a 30" barrel?), though I tried them and it was about 2600 fps in my 24" rifle.
That is still moving right along for a .375 H&H.

The .375 Weatherby factory load will do an honest 2800 fps in a 26" barrel with Nosler 300-grain Partitions.
And it can it be done by the handloader, with that bullet or a Sierra Game King, but not with the long monometal copper bullets, without excessive pressure.

Both .375 H&H and .375 Weatherby work at about the same 62 to 63Kpsi pressures.
They are both red-faced when doing their best.

Saeed's design is not red-lining pressure to get 5000 ft-lbs of muzzle KE.
And that design is more perfect in function than the 1-grain-of-water-larger .375 RUM.

2800 fps is where even FN brass solids start to bulge and penetrate less. So yes, that is fast enough.
And fast enough for making longer shots with aerodynamic expanding bullets easier.

I have hunted Africa and Alaska with a .375 H&H and a .375 Weatherby was a frequent companion in Alaska.
The .375 Weatherby definitely gave me more confidence.
The .375/404 gives me even more confidence.
Anything more than that in a .375-caliber rifle is just for "stunt" purposes.

I am appreciating the discussion on bullet speed and penetration for hunting rifles.

However, I do have a question about Saeed's and RIP's 2800 fps optimum velocity horizon.

In many calibre hunting loads are commonly 3000-3100 fps, including with expanding copper bullets. I would expect them to penetrate well, and better than 2800fps, and produce a larger/longer wound channel, IF
a) the impact does not cause excessive mushrooming like, e.g., a Woodleigh or Hawke soft sometimes do, or
b) they do not collapse/shear and suck petals through a narrow wound channel.
Is there a third detriment?

So if 3000-3100 is not recommended for particular bullets, then what kind of bullets would be wanted for that velocity?
Arn't many calibre designed for that velocity?

-

The answers to this apply to calibre outside of .375".
My 416's already do a modest 2825 fps, and the 350 grainers seem to be pretty versatile upclose and way out there. But 338's and 270's have lots of configurations which produce a 3000-3100 fps trajectory. Should we slow those down? (With 225 grain .338" and 150 grain .277"'s?)
I'm happy to do that with the 338, but the 270 looks like it might want to use the new Barnes 129 grain LRX and its higher BC. How slow should we plan to use it?

The large-case 375 calibers offer 2 options. One is that you can load to higher velocity to increase the range of the caliber. The second is that the larger cases have the powder capacity to handle the 350 and 380gr bullets at adequate velocity for use on Elephant and Cape Buffalo.

416 Tanzan,
All sorts of smaller and larger calibers and cases have different uses.
Limiting this to the KISS principle for one rifle and one bullet weight for all-purpose hunting is what 2800 fps is about:
Never fumbling around for a different load as the situation changes.

The .375/300-grain bullet at 2700 to 2800 fps is about as perfect as it gets, for shooting dangerous game off your boot toes,
or reaching out to the largest (or smallest) plains game at long range (or close range),
all with the minimum fuss.

The integrity of any solid bullet is at risk at 2800 fps impact.
Hopefully the soft will still be going about 1600 fps at long range impact for reliable performance.
In general, I have noted barrel fouling with most bullets is less too if kept down to 2800 fps or less, easier cleaning.

Increasing velocity increases the tissue resistance and also increases the bullet diameter (after impact) with a conventional soft.
Both increase drag and decrease penetration, though increasing trauma to tissue with higher velocity.
If that soft folds back to smaller diameter past a certain velocity, and retains integrity of the base shank of the bullet, it might penetrate farther at higher impact velocity.
Non-Conventional brass hollow points beat the rap by transforming into caliber-diameter solids after the nose petals blow off.
Blah, blah, blah ...

Saeed's copper Walterhog also blows its nose off at close range, top speed impact.
If it is going faster than 2800 fps at impact even the solid copper remnant bullet base is going to be more likely to expand in diameter and penetrate less deeply,
due to increased drag from diameter, as well as increased tissue resistance with increased velocity.
Blah, blah, blah ...

quote:

Bwana RIP:
...
Limiting this to the KISS principle for one rifle and one bullet weight for all-purpose hunting is what 2800 fps is about
...

It sounds pretty good to me ... Blah blah blah
The 338 WM runs the 225 TTSX at 2800fps and the 416 Rigby does the 350 grain at 2800fps. That makes for a remarkable pair of easy shooting cartridges. Both of them stay above 2000 fps all the way out to 400 yards. Booya.

Maybe someone could call this raising a new bar in African hunting.

Anyway, I'm sold on 2800fps, part of the choir.

I wonder , how's the 378 Wby fit in here ,compared to the 375 H+H ?

Thanks Saaed I appreciate your input.

Regards

Arjun

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Of all the 375H&H rifles we have had through our workshop, I have never had any that exceeded 2500 fps with 300 grain factory ammo.

Some actually would not even reach that speed.

And as I wanted to have a 375 caliber that I can use for everything, at all reasonable ranges, we made the 375/404. Which is a kissing cousin of the 375RUM.

Also, with copper bullets like the Barnes X and our own Walterhogs, we found that best penetration one gets is at around 2800 fps.

We have a 375/416 Rigby, and that drives a 300 grain bullet at 3140 fps, but at that speed the penetration was not very good at all.

All respect to Saeed, I never really understood why someone needed a 300 grain bullet moving faster than 2400 fps.

I have a 375H&H Improved. It makes the 2500fps/300gr loads at about the same pressure as a standard H&H at about 2450 +/-fps.

I bought the barreled action not knowing it was an IMP. $300 for an FN action is cheap.

Saeed's 375/404 is a real hammer, and if I could not afford a second heavy rifle I would rechamber mine and go happy.

That said, I would just buy or build another 416 Rigby. CZ makes a really fine one.

It is a truly wonderful thing to have all these choices, isn't it?

I cannot comment on the effectiveness of my 375/404 on game as I have not shot anything(yet) with it. Saeed's video's provide pretty convincing evidence that it works very well.

Both RIP and Saeed have covered the salient points of this topic and echo my own experiences with the 375 H&H, no need to re-state what they have said.

I had originally thought about a 375 Weatherby re-chamber of my M70 375 H&H, but thought that the modest increase in velocity was not worth the effort. It was a long wait for the Lilja barrel and the Hornady dies, but I am glad I went with the 375/404.

My 375/404, with Hornady brass and a Barnes 300gr TSX, reaches 2885fps very easliy. It is quite a hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
416 Tanzan,
All sorts of smaller and larger calibers and cases have different uses.
Limiting this to the KISS principle for one rifle and one bullet weight for all-purpose hunting is what 2800 fps is about:
Never fumbling around for a different load as the situation changes.

The .375/300-grain bullet at 2700 to 2800 fps is about as perfect as it gets, for shooting dangerous game off your boot toes,
or reaching out to the largest (or smallest) plains game at long range (or close range),
all with the minimum fuss.

The integrity of any solid bullet is at risk at 2800 fps impact.
Hopefully the soft will still be going about 1600 fps at long range impact for reliable performance.
In general, I have noted barrel fouling with most bullets is less too if kept down to 2800 fps or less, easier cleaning.

Increasing velocity increases the tissue resistance and also increases the bullet diameter (after impact) with a conventional soft.
Both increase drag and decrease penetration, though increasing trauma to tissue with higher velocity.
If that soft folds back to smaller diameter past a certain velocity, and retains integrity of the base shank of the bullet, it might penetrate farther at higher impact velocity.
Non-Conventional brass hollow points beat the rap by transforming into caliber-diameter solids after the nose petals blow off.
Blah, blah, blah ...

Saeed's copper Walterhog also blows its nose off at close range, top speed impact.
If it is going faster than 2800 fps at impact even the solid copper remnant bullet base is going to be more likely to expand in diameter and penetrate less deeply,
due to increased drag from diameter, as well as increased tissue resistance with increased velocity.
Blah, blah, blah …

Excellent terminal description…. BRAVO………….

Not quite sure the definition of "modest". My 375 H&H will push a 300 TSX along at 2530 FPS. My 375 Wea. will push the same 300 TSX @ 2780 FPS without breaking a sweat. Both out of 24" tubes. that is 250 FPS which is basically a 125 yd stronger load. Granted I do not believe it can achieve the data you published from the 375/404 noted below however the velocity of the Weatherby is about a 10% gain over the H&H (what I have observed in my rifles). I personally like both cartridges but if I had one to carry everyday for everything it would be the weatherby round with a good projectile.
Besides as it has been mentioned a 100 times on this forum, you can fire an H&H round in a Weatherby chamber.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Head Trauma:
I cannot comment on the effectiveness of my 375/404 on game as I have not shot anything(yet) with it. Saeed's video's provide pretty convincing evidence that it works very well.

Both RIP and Saeed have covered the salient points of this topic and echo my own experiences with the 375 H&H, no need to re-state what they have said.

I had originally thought about a 375 Weatherby re-chamber of my M70 375 H&H, but thought that the modest increase in velocity was not worth the effort. It was a long wait for the Lilja barrel and the Hornady dies, but I am glad I went with the 375/404.

My 375/404, with Hornady brass and a Barnes 300gr TSX, reaches 2885fps very easliy. It is quite a hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear Cat:
I wonder , how's the 378 Wby fit in here ,compared to the 375 H+H ?

I too is interested in this. I have a .378 too I wish to use on big game. I know a 380grain Rhino bullet at 2600 ft/sec must be able to do "something" all the others can not do..

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Not quite sure the definition of "modest". My 375 H&H will push a 300 TSX along at 2530 FPS. My 375 Wea. will push the same 300 TSX @ 2780 FPS without breaking a sweat. Both out of 24" tubes. that is 250 FPS which is basically a 125 yd stronger load. Granted I do not believe it can achieve the data you published from the 375/404 noted below however the velocity of the Weatherby is about a 10% gain over the H&H (what I have observed in my rifles). I personally like both cartridges but if I had one to carry everyday for everything it would be the weatherby round with a good projectile.
Besides as it has been mentioned a 100 times on this forum, you can fire an H&H round in a Weatherby chamber.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Head Trauma:
I cannot comment on the effectiveness of my 375/404 on game as I have not shot anything(yet) with it. Saeed's video's provide pretty convincing evidence that it works very well.

Both RIP and Saeed have covered the salient points of this topic and echo my own experiences with the 375 H&H, no need to re-state what they have said.

I had originally thought about a 375 Weatherby re-chamber of my M70 375 H&H, but thought that the modest increase in velocity was not worth the effort. It was a long wait for the Lilja barrel and the Hornady dies, but I am glad I went with the 375/404.

My 375/404, with Hornady brass and a Barnes 300gr TSX, reaches 2885fps very easliy. It is quite a hammer.

I've got a 375 Weatherby too in a very light Rem XCR II package with a 26" barrel. What I like about the 375 Weatherby is that you can shoot 375 Weatherby ammo with a 300g bullet at over 2700 fps or you can shoot factory 375 H&H if you want to also. Since the rifle was given to my youngest son (20) and he's 140 lbs soaking wet (I wish I was) the ability to shoot the lower recoil 375 H&H rounds accurately and flawlessly is a major plus for us.