I have a Modern M70 SE .375 H+H and has the factory white (ivory) sight. I got no trouble zeroing the scope but the Irons are shooting 6+ inches high at 50 yards and the adj. rear is bottomed out. Something is out of whack and either the front sight base is too short or the sight too short. I am finding this problem on all my big guns, but this one is the worst. The front sight is around .280" and the Front sight base is 7/16" or .437". Looking in the Winchester catalog these don't jib with the parts for the gun which would explain alot.

Any expert help here appreciated the best Winchester could do is send it in which will be the last resort.

Cheers

I am no expert ..... but I have had similar problems with Mannlicher Schoenauers and Mausers too. I wonder if it is to do with stock design - too high a comb for open sights but correct for scope. Just a thought.

I am proficient with irons as I am a competitive shooter, they are definitely off but on that note my CZ550, interarms mauser 458, winchester 375 and I'm willing to bet my 416 model 70 which I have not shot yet, are off. How do they leave the factory so dorked up? I am assuming they hope no one uses the iron sights? Crazy.

Take a look at an NEC banded front sight as a replacement for factory front sight. You will very likely be able to find a base/blade height comination that will be correct. Looks way better that the factory setup.

First measure your front sight dovetail width ( with a micrometer). Then call Brownells, and talk to their tech services guys and give them the blade width, and your base height. They will advise you on the proper front sight blade height to order to correct for the 6 inch high POI. My guess is the factory put the wrong size blade on your front sight. Correction is just a few bucks and five minutes or away. QC isnt what it once was at Winchester.-Rob

My solution would be to mount a Lyman Model 48 receiver sight with the holes conveniently provided in the receiver, remove and throw away the sight insert, and enjoy the most accurate of iron sights available for a hunting rifle. Though no longer manufactured, Lyman 48's are generally available, sometimes in "new, old stock" condition.

I used a Lyman 48 on my .505 to take three elephants, five Cape buffalo and a black rhino with no problems whatsoever.

Good stuff thanks. I have looked at a receiver sight, but as thois rifle is primarily scoped with the irons as backup I just want them zeroed and will look at doing so. On my 458 lott I picked up it was the same only 4 inches high at 50 with factory front sight and this gun I will keep iron and I know NECG makes a nice looking receiver sight, and I am in the process of getting the proper height front after bing sent the wrong one. It is very frustrating that I have 3 "DG" factory guns, that are waaay off with the factory irons.

You have two good, easy choices: Use Talley bases and have one of their peeps fit to the rear base, or use a Brockman pop-up peep, which is attached to a Talley rear base and is compressed by the scope tube when the scope is mounted.

NOTE: You have to be careful when fitting the Brockman as it isn't guaranteed to fit every setup. I had one on a Mod70 30 06 and when I went from a fixed 4x to 3-9x scope, the power ring hit the peep and there was not enough room for the setup to work. I then mounted the Talley peep to the rear base it it works fine. I have an adjustable NECG front sight on the rifle. The only bitch I have is that you must carry the peep off the rifle, but on the other hand, I think the Talley is bulletproof. I have thought of replacing my rear ERA sight on my 375 and using the Talley peep on it as well.

I have a couple of old model 70's and two are quite accurate with iron sights at 100 yds. If they are being shot at 50 yd targets, would the point of impact not be high ? Just wondering...

My new model 70 safai express has a NECG rear sight and a Williams front ramp and sight. The simplist change out is the NECG rear, just order a different height sight from NECG, and make the exchange with a single retaining screw.
The front blade exchange requires a sight pushing tool, around $50 from Brownells. Easy to do, though.

quote:

Originally posted by swifter 220:
I have a couple of old model 70's and two are quite accurate with iron sights at 100 yds. If they are being shot at 50 yd targets, would the point of impact not be high ? Just wondering...

If your are dead center at 100 then you would be alright at 50.At worst an inch or inch and a half high.I think the issue of sights being off may be caused by how the barreled action fits in the stock.I remember bedding a couple of rifles and found that it really changed the POI of the iron sights.I would want my sights set only after the rifle is blued, stock finished and screws tightened and locked tight.I believe that setting the sights when the rifle is unfinished then going back and working on it some more will change its harmonics and change POI.POI is fragile,IMO.

Shootaway, should have mentioned, not that it makes any difference, or it may, the two Model 70'S I spoke of are both Pre 64'S. The .270 made in 1949 and the .300 in 1952. Do not really know if that would have anything to do with assembly or not in relation to the issue posted above. food for thought. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I have a Modern M70 SE .375 H+H and has the factory white (ivory) sight. I got no trouble zeroing the scope but the Irons are shooting 6+ inches high at 50 yards and the adj. rear is bottomed out. Something is out of whack and either the front sight base is too short or the sight too short. I am finding this problem on all my big guns, but this one is the worst. The front sight is around .280" and the Front sight base is 7/16" or .437". Looking in the Winchester catalog these don't jib with the parts for the gun which would explain alot.

Any expert help here appreciated the best Winchester could do is send it in which will be the last resort.

Cheers

No expert, but I currently own one and have owned two others of that rifle. The front ramp and sight blade are a product from Williams Sights. Once you've established the needed correction, you can use their chart to determins which sight blade or which ramp/sight blade replacement you need to regulate the point of impact.

I understand you say you shoot sights well, but, I've shot many of the same rifles you noted without having such a consistent across the board issue. Are you sure you are getting the bead down into the rear sight? If you had the bead where it needs to be on your aiming point, but you had a habit of lowering the rear notch so you have too much of a gap, you are then artificially raising your point of impact. Quite a few have this problem.

In addition, IMO, the factory Winchester Safari Stock of these later generations is a poor design to address the factory fixed sights. Me personally, also having a background shooting competition on a National level, cannot get a proper sight picture without modifications to that stock. Works great with a scope, not so great for me with fixed sights.

Best

edit to add:

Here's the fixed sight regulation of my current M70 in 416Remington. 1st was a sighter to make minor correction, then 3-shot group at 100yards. Though it is with an aftermarket stock.

Yes the stock is not optimal. I modified the rear sight to go lower and will shoot to see where POI is. Thanks for the info about the sight MFG as when I took it apart I saw it was an easy swap (rear). Open sights will be secondary on this gun so I will not restock it just get it to shoot for me. I am also using a large ivory front but I want a close range lowlight setup. I will do the same for my other one once I fix the broken stock (ouch!). Thanks for the info...