I've finally worked the details out. Borchardt Rifle co. is making a .50BMG Falling Block action big enough to chamber the full length cartridge and Pac-Nor will make a 12 Ga 1:20 twist barrel. Dave Kiff and I have the reamer design completed. The muzzel brake will be from John at Bridger Bullets. I have considered the parradox design, but would rather go with a fully rifled barrel at this time. The gun will of course also fire a std. 12 ga 2 3/4 inch shotgun shell. Cases will be made from std .50BMG cases as previously described. I'll do the woodwork myself. I think I'll have a working gun by June of next year. -Rob

Hey Rob...
man this sounds just too cool!!!

I would still suggest the paradox, just to stay inline with the old 12 bore, but that's just me

any pics of this action?

How's the 600 coming?
jeffe

I'm in for a barrel.

I'd also be interested in a smooth bore. I would look at doing a screw in choke system one of which would be made from a rifled 12 ga barrel about 5-6 " in length. It would have to seat on the end of the barrel and have the threads opposite to the twist or it would unscrew when fired but by seating on the barrel end and not an inside shoulder a spanner wrench system to break it free should work fine.

Tell me when and where to send the money.

John

Would shotloads in the actual 12GFH cases work?
Pressure shouldn't worry these cases or the action- might even be able to get 3 ounces in.
Even with rifling that's a pretty serious payload for 'stopping cats'etc. as they used to do with the old guns.

Karl.

Rob--That is great.I have info coming from Borchardt also
on that action.Could use it for both 12GA FH and 700HE, with
barrel change.How is John doing on scaling up the
Win falling Block? When you order the barrels. I will get one also with you to make up the number needed for good price.The rifled will be fine, and have bucks saved for it.My hollow base bullets will
work in rifled as well as smoothbore.They are now 750 gr and at that wt I will fill base with epoxy filler, which adds only 2 gr to do the first load testing.Further on in testing, put lead in base to add wt for more testing. Can get up to 1100 gr that way,
using one design of John's solids
So the rifled barrel will be fine.Ed.

Karl-- Yes the cases Rob and I built would work for
shot.Plastic shotcups would be the easiest way,and if
long enough could hold 2-3 ounces. Make a great in close
lion load with 2-3 ounces of buckshot.Ed.

I'm going to order 2" diameter, 30 inch long, 1:20 twist, CM, 12 bore barrels from Pac-Nor. Chris should get back to me today with a price and delivery time. Who wants in other than Fritz454 and ED?-Rob

Rob,

What action can this be built on and how much do those actions cost? Thanks.

500gr--Can be built on McBros 50 cal action and other
50 Cal actions.McBros is about 2 grand.The barrels Rob is ordering are large enough
diameter for 1.5 inch barrel threads, and still have a
good shoulder to butt against front of action.The Borchardt
falling block action will work great also.I think that is what Rob is planning on using.They are about 2 grand.Some of the fellows on here are also going to try them in singles and doubles at lower pressure to experiment and see what is possible that way.
Later I plan to build up a special thickwall Greener-Martini
Action to try it with at medium pressures.Ed.

Thanks. Where can I find out more about the Bouchart falling block action?

500gr-All--Call Al Story at Borchardt Rifle-505-535-2923.
He has a brochure he sends out.The action is huge and
Al told me it is heavy and thick enough so there is no worry about weakness, that it can be slimmed down, depending on barrel size, case size and how much power you are putting through it.I will have son get a picture of
it from brochure and post it later.Ed.

500grs- I pretty much deceided against the .50 BMG McBros action. You can get the 12GA From Hell into it but extraction is a big problem. The Borchardt has no such problems and will feed and eject the 12 Ga rimmed .50BMG brass as sweetly as a std 2 3/4 inch 12 gA SHOTSHELL. The price is comparable to the McBros at about $2k and Al says about a two to three month delivery time. Al will also modify his extractor for the Rim on the 12 Ga FH very inexpensively. This is absolutely the best way to go. We have been toying with making our own Hi-walls, but it takes an awful lot of effort and some tricky heat treating, I think we are all better off just buying Al's actions.-Rob

Pac-Nor will make the barrels for $265 each. They will be 2" diameter straight,CM, 30 inches long in 1:20 twist, 12 Bore ( .729 groove and .719 lands). I have ordered three of them. If you want in on this you can send the cash to Pac-Nor directly. They have the button, so delivery time will be pretty quick.-Rob

Let me get this straight.

You've got a 50 BMG falling block action, and you're putting a 12 gauge rifled barrel on it (so its something like .730 caliber?) and then you're going to take a 50 BMG cartridge and open it up to seat a slug that's nearly 3/4"?!?!?!?!?!?!

That rocks!!!!

You are right,That really rocks. And the greatest thing
is using BMG brass and Rob and I figured a way to put a 12ga size rim on it.Here is pic with regular 12ga case
and 12GA FH.Posting these are fun.Ed.

So ,will it use 3 1/2" super mag shells as well? Might make it more versatile.

Ed- That's a great picture but you need a better bullet. Talk to John! Yes it will shoot 3 1/2 inch 12 Ga shells. It will also shoot 1200 gr brass bullets at 3000fps and probably 2000 gr bore riders at 1500-1600 fps. All in the same gun that will fire a tender 2 3/4 shotshell. The 12 Ga FH is designed for 60Kpsi loads. It will put a smile on your face and instantly give Dianne Feinstein a classic case of hemmoroids!They may succeed in banning .50BMG's but this beast is immune!It's kinda my answer to GUN CONTROL!-Rob

Rob-Called Pacnor,and got barrel ordered.Money goes to
them tommorrow.That bullet in the case is just show, being and ole Foster shotgun slug.Made a nice picture.I
have the 750 gr hollow bases ones from John here now.
Will be able to test in different wts by filling base with lead, to get wt up to over 1100 gr.Doing all we can to
help the hemmoroids with their hemmoroids.Ed.

Will brass be available for purchase, or if not, what type of equipment will I need to make the brass?

Thanks.

Fritz 454 says he will make some 12 GA FH brass available, made from .50BMG cases. It's really trivial if you have a Lathe. Simply turn the .50BMG brass down to 5/8 and thread 14TPI.
Make a rim out of 1 inch brass bar stock, Drill and tap 5/8X14 and set the rim bevel to the same angle as a 12 Ga case. Poof your in buisness. Of course you have to anneal the case neck and fireform in the guns chamber before reloading. Basic widcat stuff.-Rob

Seems like 1:20 is at least twice as fast as one would need in 12 ga. Have you done the math with the Greenhill formula? The old 12 bore rifles had about 1:100 for use with roundballs....

The 1/20 twist is for heavy bullets that we plan to use,as
we develope loads, like up to 12-1500 grains.Ed.

Hi Ed,

I've got a 2050 gr .700 cal bore rider for the 700 BMG. I would bet you could get to 2200 gr with out much trouble in the 12 GAFH. The 1:20 should work fine for those as well.
John

Would these Bordacht actions take the .700 Nitro round ??

I am a little confused about what the 12 g from hell actually is

Here is picture of the BORCHARDT ACTION. Yes it works for
700 NE, 50 BMG(which is one in picture),Rob's 700BMG
Imp,My 700 HE, and our 12GA From Hell.Ans of course for 600NE, 577NE, and any thing else.Our 12GA FH is a long
brass 12ga case made from BMG brass, that can shoot heavy slugs faster than the 700 NE can, and the brass is a small
fraction of the costs.And the chamber can still shoot shotshells.The Borchardt is big and can be lightened and
slimmed down(It is 2.25 in wide) as needed depending on cartridge...Ed

Several question's

1. Wich cartrige has more case capacity, 12gfh, .700 BMGImp, or the .700 HE?

2. Is it possible for you to post a picture of the three cartriges mentioned in my first question, together side-y-side prefferably?

3. You mentioned that the McMillan action has problems extracting the 12gfh round; to your knowlege Mr. Hubble, does that same action have problems extracting your .700HE as well?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer some, if not all of my questions.

The 12GaFH will have the most case capacity.The Mcmillan action will work for any .50BMG based rimless cartridge. It could be made to work with a rimmed cartidge, but you'd have to make and correctly harden a new bolt ( not trivial to do).
A 1:20 twist will be about right for this class of cartridge. I've talked with Butch Searcy and he's probably had more experience with .700's than anyone else and he is in full agreement on using a 1:20 twist. The beauty of the 12GAFH is it's just a shotgun. Nothing more or less! A Darn Big shotgun.!!-Rob

Nishoba--I don't have one of Rob's 700BMG IMP to put with the others for a picture.As Rob said 12GA FH holds the most,
His 700BMG Imp second with about 5 grains more than my
700 HE.His case has small shoulder, mine is straight sided
with a belt.Both his and my cases extract great in any action big enough for them.The recoil of both 700's as well
as 12GA FH will tip over a truck, We won't be overloading them.I have to get a 700 case from Rob and post them altogether.There is picture of 12ga regular case with a 12 GA FH on here somewhere.Ed

One of the very nice aspects of the various .700's built on the .50BMG case is their extreme flexibility. You can load them with slow powders like VV20N29 of H50BMG to velocities of 1500 fps or with faster powders like Rl-25 or Rl-22 for velocities in the 2500 fps range. Moving to H414 you can exceed 3000 fps with a 1000 gr bullet. At that level of power a muzzel brake becomes an absolute necessity as well as the crutial over 22lbs of gun weigh, multiple mercury recoil reducers and
adequate crossbolts and bedding to keep the thing from coming apart or splintering the stock. The .700 on the BMG case may also be considered a destructive device and will require registration as it's built on a military case and not derived from a common sporting cartridge. That's why the 12 Ga FH is so appealing. It's just a 12 Ga shotgun under all state and federal laws.

I got a flyer on the Borchart falling block suitable for the 12 ga FH cartridge. The action is gigantic and looks like it would be a bit large for a gun to be carried - more of a bench rest affair.

I think I am going to pass on this project, at least until I get my 600 OK finished (or started, assuming Dieter makes the brass).

Rob
In the new addition of Cartridges of the World J.D. Jones has a 700 on the 50 BMG case classified as a sporting cartridge not as a destructive device. So your 700 imp should be ok if J.D. Jones is.

RNS

THAT'S A BORCHARDT? As in Sharps model 1878? I don't think so. Indeed, there is a company coming out with a remake of the 1878, but that's not it. What is that thing, besides ugly, to this beholder?

Brent

The company is the Borchardt rifle company. The action is a Win Hi-Wall varient. When I get done with it, it will be beautiful.
I was unaware of a JDJones 700 BMG cartridge. To my knowledge, a guy named Monte Kyser first developed it and listed his reamers with JGS. A whole bunch of other guys including ones who post here have their own version. Can you post a scan of the COW article.Unfortunately, while it may not be a destructive device federally, there are states that will classify it as such themselves and you have to apply for a special exemption.The 12 GAFH avoids all that hassle and is still just a BIG SHOTGUN!-Rob

Can't scan right now but I can send you a fax a copy. Check your fax same number as before.

There is always more than one way to skin a cat


RNS

heck it looks even less like a Highwall. I don't see an underlever, but then it's not a great picture. Any website for these folks?



Here is a real Borchardt...





Brent

Rob

Did you recieve the information?

RNS

Neal- Thanks, I knew about his 600/577 based on the 577NE but didn't know about his 700 on the 50 BMG. Thats good to know he has it ATF approved. I was talking to Butch Searcy about this and was also unaware. California still classifies over .60 caliber as a destructive device although I'm told there are exemptions permitted. No I'm not going to the shot show but will be at SCI-Reno.-Rob

Rob
We recieved an invitation from Fred Well to display some of the 550 Magnum information at his table at the SCI. Stop by and check it out for me then drag some of your buddies over and twist their arms until they want to build a 550 Magnum also.

RNS