pwm-I am looking for cases that we can build 2 and 1 bore
straight sided rimmed case like the old bore cases. No neck. But they must have a slight taper to the sides compared to the straight paper shot cases in the guage sizes.Example is the 4 bore with straight paper shot cases, but when they made dangerous game guns in the
4 bore ball/bullet rounds from brass they gave them a little taper to the sides.Like the Imperial 4 bore brass case I have seen pic of, it has a taper of .030 per side.
An example in checking, to see if it would work for a 1 bore case using specs from Oerlikon
30mm x 173mm case. The base is 1.716 in, subtract say
.086 to cut base down to leave a rim, leaves base at 1.630
inches. Subtract total taper of both sides of .050 leaves
1.580 in. Subtract case neck total thickness of both sides
of say .050 and that leaves a bore of 1.530. Ideal for a one bore is 1.670. So another .200 inch on a case base would get extra bore diameter and allow a little more taper which is desirable.How much are the brass Bofors cases. They sure are long enough.And they would have to be shrunk.Are there any 40 x 158R brass
cases around. They would have a base as big as the OERlikon
20x173 brass case after base was shrunk to make rim,and they already have the rim.And they are long enough to make a ball/bullet case over 6.25 inches long.Ed.

ed

I am dont worry about this ".005" to small base, dont go your way and and make the rim from the 20mm case head. I cast a new rim and the original case base come part of the new taper case. nobody know's why the brits named this big shotguncases like they do in the 19 century.

the measurments I have for the Eley 2 bore cartridge are 1,28" rim dia. , 1,18" base dia. , 1,135" case dia. and .0155" for rim thickness. this comes from the last issue of the double gun journal and fits perfect the description Greener gives in "the gun and its development".
please give me the measurment you have found.

Guys just a note to remember regarding these old fashioned shotgun bores what payloads they actually threw.

For example if you look at the original mighty 8 gauge it can actually be beaten by the 12ga these days.



My point is a 'long modern 4 bore' crammed with over 6 ounces of shot or a 2000gn conical may be about the biggest you can fire standing anyway.



A 2 bore is designed for throwing twice the payload of a 4 bore and needs to weigh twice as much.

At 30lbs therefore a 2 bore is going to to have to be loaded down to 4 bore levels anyway to stay under 180ftlbs recoil energy.



Most of the 2,3 bores I have tracked down do this.

One British one was fired with only 5 oz loads which a 4 bore can do. The 3 bore on TMMH used a 2400gn slug or so but with an 8 guage powder load so it barely trickled out the barrel. Even bakers '1/2 pound 4 bore' used an 8 bore powder load.

Its a hell of a lot of brass hassle just to load back to 4 bore power is my point.



Ground firing..well the skies the limit.



On that note the 1 bore will develope 250ftlbs recoil even from a 60lb firearm...

And that is when its at mere 2 bore energy levels





Karl.

karl - you misinterpret this, we discuss technical, not human, ability

pwm-Got info from COTW--

They show a 3 bore as 1.157 bore,and case base of 1.388.Case Neck 1.350. Rim 1.515

They show 2 bore as 1.325 with case base of 1.735 in.

Case neck 1.715. Rim 1.888.

If you build a case like the Eley, it isn't "stiff upper

lip" to call it a 2 bore.No matter what Eley did.Those measurements from Eley are barely bigger than 2 bore,something Greener mentioned,I have Greeners book and I think, and so do others, that

he looked down upon that practice also.And you show

the Eley calls for a 1.180 base and a 20mm is only 1.152,

so it isn't even big enough to make a cheater 2 bore like

the Eley, even if you add a rim so as to not reduce the base.Even smaller than 3 bore. I will get cases from

new site and see what they have in 4, 3, and 2 bore.

They have turned cases and they may be ok for proper size.

And if right size can be used,for what they are being called; and will put out enough recoil as Karl mentions even though they are turned cases.Just like the brass Tula cases we had made, they can get up to all the recoil that a guy can handle from that light pump gun. Ed.

ed
I am not woory when the 20mm brass is ,028" to small this is common practise with shotgun cartridges.
Very intersting, we have 3 different cases, my one called a 2 bore and isnt and your 3 bore and 2 bore. Please give me your e-mail address again, dont find it anywhere here. I will send you the articel and you send me your source. Thinking COTW is Cartridges of the world right? I have the 7.edition, they show a american 3 bore and a english 37mm case but dont give measurments.I have your 3 bore in the 1926 Fiocchi catalog named "32mm", 120mm long paper shell, a picture and a drawing with measurments. very similar is the 34mm swiss signal flare case. I have a unfired brass case, 120mm long, have spoken with some guys from ECRA, the cartridge collectors here about this. No one knows more about this but I think the swiss is a copy of this 32mm- your 3 bore- cartridge, it have not the exact measurments like in the catalog but it will fit and this is common practice with shotgun cartridges. my case is made in 1950 but is now long time out of production. If you wish to have one, I meet a collector cartridge dealer in october and think he have it.For your 2 bore I think the 30x173 Oelikon is the best You have 44,06mm on the base, oelikon have 43,6mm on the base and 44mm on rim. this is the rigth one. Tony Williams list it in Rapid Fire as steel case and alloy case. Steel is good for making the rim. I have a brass case in my collection but cant measure it. My digital caliper had have a traffic accident, a car is driving about him, he was my best friend. I think you can understand what I feel.

I mean Greener words on page 392, 9.edition:" there is a 2 bore case made by Messr.Eley Brothers, limited but the caliber is practical that of the 4 bore thin brass case gun.the case do not hold a largeer charge, nor do the gun shot better..." you see that this description fit perfect for my measurments, as a paper case it will be only something bigger than a 4 bore brass case

pwm-Yes that is Cartridges of the World, 10th edition.
And I got info from the shotgun specifications chart.
As far as building these big bore 2-1 sizes I and I am sure Al, want to get as close to proper size if possible.
At least not much more than .050 smaller.And as Karl says
they my be too big to fire from shoulder, unless we can get weight up and have Hulk Hogan fire them. Or mount them on wheels.HahHah.Ed.

ed- have check the list, all cases around 43-45mm base dia. are now absolet, most since ww2. you may find one or two by collector dealer but this is not a real supply. take a look again to the 40mm bofors L60. the bofors have a very massive head, I think you can reduse 5mm and more. i will stay with the old british 2 bore shotgun case when making brass from 20mm vulcan. turn the case on the lathe to make a rebated rim and than cast a brass rim around. If i make this with the 30x173 also you have your case for the 1 bore. dont know if it works, seems me possible.you can use the case without resizing, only cut the old neck.
when you look in the CIP list you find that any shotguncartridge and the chamber have this small taper.

We checked with Cannon-Mania who makes 2-3-4 Bore blank

firing brass cases for deck cannons, etc.Their brass is turned on CNC. The 4 bore is of the shotgun size of .938

inches like the Tula, except it is longer at 4 in long.The 3 bore is 1.140 bore

with really thick sides that could be reamed out to

the 1.158 proper 3 bore size.It is 4 in long. The 2 bore

is 1.296 and has really thick sides and could be reamed out to say within a .100 of the 1.325 in proper diameter as listed in book..It is 5 in long. Both 2 and 3

bores have sides over twice as thick as specs in COTW call for.They are built heavy.You can get their site at link given by RNS in thr post above.I plan on getting a 2 and 3.

3 bore is 26 bucks each and 2 bore is 30 bucks each now,

but prices are going up due to the price of brass doubling.

He made them from brass stock bought before the prices doubled this year.But he now has to buy expensive.Prices will be about 50% higher I think.

Something to check out when we get them here. Ed.

Ed
At one time you were looking at getting some 50 cal blanks for you 700 HE

http://www.ows-ammunition.com/cgi-bin/store/store.cgi?shop=ows&Category=99999

He has some and maybe he can help you get some more

RNS

Neal-Thanks for link. I got your Tula cases on the way,
and gave you a couple of 700HE to say thanks for your help,
in the last year.Show them to your big bore gunnut friends.
The other link gave us a source for some sizes.Ed.

Ed

Thanks for that. here is a second link for the 50 cal blanks

http://www.bigskysurplus.com/50_caliber.htm

Check your PM

RNS

Ed, RNS

You guys have any good sources you care to share for 50BMG, 20mm, 25mm and 30mm brass.

I like the lake city 50 bmg brass you have Ed. Do you have a number or other contact info? Or should I just buy through you?

I've actually got an idea for using the 20-25 and 30mm brass for the ultimate stopping rifle.

These tree squirrels can be really dangerous especially in the fall when they're hiding their nuts .

John

Actually I'm working on an action to take these ultra big bores and need a reliable source for some brass or dummy rounds.

Neal-i just got some stuff from Big Sky and he doesn't
have the right blanks either.
fritz-Big Sky can get you those big sizes, and I will have a two bore case figured out here very soon to give you something to have in hand if you want, to build your action on.My batch of 50 cal was a one time deal and I cleaned a private guy out, River Valley Ordnance in MO has 50 cal.Ed.

What size are you making 2 bore then? The 20mm Vulcan cases
I have are way to small to get anywhere near 1.325.The
case only measures 1.152 at the base..Ed.

ED

Have you looked at this sight yet?

http://www.cannon-mania.com/ammunition.htm

RNS

ed
I am looking to make the old british 2 bore shotgun case in brass. this is of course in real a 3 bore like the 4 bore shotgun case cartridge is a 6 bore and so on. we know the difference between name and measurment.the plan is to working in the footsteps of tradition. No I understand what you like to do thinking different about steel cases. You must allways looking what for cases available today. steel cases are easy rework in "rimmed cases", look for right dia.steel disc, you will find many sizes for srews. turn the head of the case on your lathe till you can slip the disc over the head and fit it with 3 or 4 welding points. it will stand anything you make with it.
RNS thank you for the link, this is new fodder for the little collector in me.