the 416 rigby seems light for a large case, can it be loaded where it will well out perform the 416 remington, I hear on the 338 lapua they completely redesigned the 416 case, but in less bs terms they beefed up the case to handle higher chamber psi. I figure the former 416 was loaded around 36 cup where in this day and age it could go higher.

I chose the rigby over the rem for the reason that the larger case can outperform the Remington with less pressure.

well put clint eastwood

quote:

can it be loaded where it will well out perform the 416 remington,

Easily.

I played around a fair bit with a 416 Rigby in a CZ 550 Mag Kevlar stock for about 2 years.

I really enjoyed owning the rifle and developing loads for it. If you search here in the archives you should find the old thread with lots of input from fellow AR members.

The old original load for 416 Rigby was about 2360 fps for a 400 gr bullet. This was published velocity. Many claim that the actual chronographed velocity was more like 2200 fps with 410 gr bullets- just a tad more than the 404 Jeffery with 400 gr bullets.

I found AR 2209 (H4350) to be the best powder. I could easily get 2700 fps with 400 gr bullets but the recoil was severe for me. I ended up stopping at 2400 fps for the 410 gr & 2500 for 400 gr bullets.

The 340 gr & 350 gr bullets did 2840 fps comfortably but again I dropped them to 2700 fps for better comfort & confidence in shooting accurately.

With these loads the case expansion was minimal. I reloaded cases 5 times and still no expansion in length after FL sizing. Primers reseated really firm. No significant increase in case head expansion!

My only regret was that I never got to hunt Africa with that rifle.

I chose the 416 Rigby (several times, I've owned 6) over the Remmie because of the large case for handloading. It easily handles over 6000 ftlbs with appropriate medium slow powders.

Currently, we use 101.5 grains Reloder 17 with the 350grain TTSX for 2820 fps and just under 6200 foot pounds. Sighted in at 2.0" high at 100 yards it is only -6.7" low at 300 yards, which makes it about as good as it gets for an all around plains-game, flat-shooting round, that still has the diameter, penetration, and punch for a reliable buffalo round.

It might take a little practice to get used to but it is very accurate in the last three rifles that I've had. We've taken little antelope like oribi and impala on the one hand, and buffalo on the other.

Below is the sightin from a recent impala hunt. The two shots were by two different people (my son and I) at 95 yards from a car hood/bonnet. When a rifle shots like that it gives a lot of confidence.




So enjoy the cartridge, it is probably the most flexible of any African cartridge for a handloader.

For a lighter load, I am also considering the following:

CEB makes a tipped Raptor .416" at 307 grains, and a 2700 fps load would only drop -9" at 300 yards, sighted in 2.0" at 100. Even 2600fps would still produce a great all around load that would only drop -10.4" at 300 yards. These lighter loads should still handle buffalo with authority and will be comfortable for any sized plains game at all reasonable African distances.

PS: we've also shot guinea fowl with our 416's and had plenty of meat and delicious dinners.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:


CEB makes a tipped Raptor .416" at 307 grains, and a 2700 fps load would only drop -9" at 300 yards, sighted in 2.0" at 100. Even 2600fps would still produce a great all around load that would only drop -10.4" at 300 yards. These lighter loads should still handle buffalo with authority and will be comfortable for any sized plains game at all reasonable African distances.

PS: we've also shot guinea fowl with our 416's and had plenty of meat and delicious dinners.

Why stop at 2600 with the 300 gr Raptors? I'm getting 2900-3000 pretty easily. That really gets you into the 'all around' category.

quote:

Originally posted by sierra whiskey:
the 416 rigby seems light for a large case, can it be loaded where it will well out perform the 416 remington, I hear on the 338 lapua they completely redesigned the 416 case, but in less bs terms they beefed up the case to handle higher chamber psi. I figure the former 416 was loaded around 36 cup where in this day and age it could go higher.

The Rigby outperforms the Remington with START loads, whereas the Rem has to rum max loads to stay at 2400fps.
I've had both, kept the Rigby, sold the Rem. The brass didn't last in the Rem, I'm still using 25yr old Norma Rigby brass!!
I load 104gr of RE22 behind 410gr Woodleigh RNSP for 2525fps. Everything it touches falls over dead.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by sierra whiskey:
the 416 rigby seems light for a large case, can it be loaded where it will well out perform the 416 remington, I hear on the 338 lapua they completely redesigned the 416 case, but in less bs terms they beefed up the case to handle higher chamber psi. I figure the former 416 was loaded around 36 cup where in this day and age it could go higher.

The Rigby outperforms the Remington with START loads, whereas the Rem has to rum max loads to stay at 2400fps.
I've had both, kept the Rigby, sold the Rem. The brass didn't last in the Rem, I'm still using 25yr old Norma Rigby brass!!
I load 104gr of RE22 behind 410gr Woodleigh RNSP for 2525fps. Everything it touches falls over dead.

Cheers.

and a PS on "I'm still using 25yr old Norma Rigby brass!!":
As far as I can tell, both Norma and Hornady 416Rigby brass are strong, full service products. They are not manufactured or engineered to a lower psi threshold but handle normal modern pressures of 65000 psi without any problem. I guesstimate that most 6000 ftpound Rigby loads, assuming appropriate powders, hover around 60k. The Rigby cases seem to love it, as least as much, or more, than my 270 and 338 cases.

quote:

TrademarkTexan:
Why stop at 2600 with the 300 gr Raptors? I'm getting 2900-3000 pretty easily. That really gets you into the 'all around' category.

Totally agreed.
My point was to propose a nice LIGHT load that could still be used for hunters as all-around African loads, when and if a person does not want to shoot 6000+ ft# loads. I've been told that sometime between the age of 70 and 80 a hunter prefers to lower the amount of head-shaking recoil. Up to about 70, it seems that adrenalin makes the memories sweet. (I don't even remember the rifle going off on the impala two months ago with a nice 6200ftlb load. Even the sight-in shots above were sweet.) So in that context of looking ahead to an age of stiffness and less flexibility, 2600fps with a 307grain bullet brings the foot-pounds down to 4600, which is about the level of a 375, commonly felt to be a non-issue, especially those who had been shooting 6000+ ft-pound loads. Lord willing, when I'm 80 I will be happy to hunt with 4000-5000 levels, max. My wife already prefers a 4000 ftlb ceiling or less.

PPS: For a load around 4600-4900 ft pounds I would probably re-tool and buy a 416Ruger. Why carry an extra pound and a half of rifle, unless wanting close to 6000ft pounds? That 416 Ruger might make an excellent second rifle to my 500. My son has the 416Rigby.

416Tanzan,

Have you tried 330gr GSC HV Bullets in your Rigby?

quote:

Originally posted by Deon:
416Tanzan,

Have you tried 330gr GSC HV Bullets in your Rigby?

I have a box for testing and first results have been promising. The main reason for TTSX was price and high BC, while the 307gn CEB provides a light recoil load. The GSC will get the nod as a compromise if it shows an accuracy advantage over the other two. We'll see in a couple of months.