I am loading up some 416RemMag to a slightly lower speed (neck injury issues for myself and another shooter and we want to keep the recoil pulse as low as possible) for Cape Buffalo.

My target speed is the longtime African standard of 2150-2200 fps w/400 grain A-frames and Barnes Solids.

The lowest speeds I see published are about 2250 fps in the Swift manual.

Any one have another source of data with a temperature insensitive powder like Varget?

Barnes #4 lists their 400gr TSX @ 2090fps using VihtaVouri N135.

F224

I went back to some of my records on 416 Remington and found that I had tried a couple of loads that might fit into what you need. This was tested in a Winchester M70 24 inch barrel.

400 gr Hornady 82 grs WW 760 2188 fps pressure 45000 psi (on this I tested pressure at the time)

400 Hornady 80 grs IMR 4350 2168 fps low pressure.

Both loads are with Fed 215 primers.

Maybe this is a place to start for you.

Michael

72gr/Varget/Swift 400gr AF/3.6" COAL should give you right at 2200fs at ~50KPSI.

65gr/Varget,same bullet,same COAL,2000fs at ~40KPSI.

68-71/Varget with a 400gr Barnes solid or XFB

Load from a Disk V5.

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
72gr/Varget/Swift 400gr AF/3.6" COAL should give you right at 2200fs at ~50KPSI.

65gr/Varget,same bullet,same COAL,2000fs at ~40KPSI.

68-71/Varget with a 400gr Barnes solid or XFB

Load from a Disk V5.

Not having loaded anything bigger than the 338WinMag before, any problems with reduced loads and detonation to be concerned about?

FOOBAR's data looks good to me.

Varget is excellent, temperature insensitive.
If there is any powder shake,
fill the case with enough Dacron filler to lock it in place and you will have no worries.
It will be more consistent and accurate too.
Lesser recoil too, than a case packed full of slower powder such as H4831.

Adding the Dacron will also allow you to use a grain or two less powder and get the same velocity as the no-filler load.

Give me the actual case capacity in grains of H20 of your brass, and the actual length, weight, and type of the bullet you are using, and I will run it through QuickLOAD to see what that predicts.

All good answers , . I was going to recommend H 4350 . It is an extreme powder ,so is not too affected by the temp... W 760 and H 414 are susceptible to cold . I can,t remember the load but I used to shoot alot of Speer 350 hot Cores in a 416 Rem @ 2250 fps . It was a great load for deer hunting and blastin and I wasn,t concerned about the bears when packin out deer ...

This is close enough for horse shoes:

QuickLoad default values for this 416RemMag load:
106.99 gr H20 case capacity
410-gr Woodleigh Weldcore (1.300" long)
COL: 3.600"
case length: 2.850"
24" barrel

Varget, 70.0 grains
89.1% case filling/loading ratio/density
46,574 psi
2197 fps
4393 ft.-lbs.

99.3% propellant burnt
32.4% ballistic efficiency (outstanding)

10.0 pound rifle:

recoil: 45.58 ft.-lbs. @ 17.12 fps

Very gentle, even with no muzzle brake.

I would guess that 2 grains of Dacron filler and one less grain of powder would make an excellent load.

Beats the classic 450/400 NE 3" killer ballistics.

Filler is not necessary with Varget or RL-15 loads of 85% and more.
But it will improve the consistency.

I do not have the 400-grain Swift bullet in the default data.
I believe it is slightly longer and will put you into the +90% fill.

You just need to load it and chronograph it in your rifle, with about 70 grains of Varget and adjust the charge from there. Low pressure "killer" load, aye.

Rip's information gives the loading density. No worries, Mate.

As far as detonation is concerned it "was associated" with large capacity cases and small amounts of slow burning powder, in the area of 50%.

My suggestion is to read all you can about the phenomonen if it concerns you. I don't want to get anything started as most of the information is scattered all over the net and all you need to do is "your homework".

As far as I'm concerned, I think there were several factors involved, maybe some mis-information, mis-identification or wrong way looking/thinking with the problem, it seemed to be very difficult to reproduce consistently.

In othe words you couldn't just load up another round with the same load and it blow another gun up. A lot of very savvy people work very hard trying to repeat the phenomenon, but it hardly ever occured again. It seems to be in the collective conscience of the shooting public and constantly comes up.

I always wonder why??? There are many other more dangerous activities going on that no over ever seems to question...Go figure!!!

As long as you stay within reloading manual data, use proper reloading techniques and think about it, you should be safe.

The velocity you are looking for is basically a starting load for some powders and was available in two of my reloading manuals, I just ran the data through LD for interests sake.

GOTO Hodgdons online reloading site, it might have just what you are looking for.

You can use data for any 400 gr bullet at starting or up to 10% below starting loads and be safe, for the most part, just stay within 85 - 100% loading density for the best performance.

Luck on your quest.

Look's like RIP has it wired. I found Lyman Manual data that shows 70.0gr of Varget right at 2150 or so. It will be a good start point.

Thanks guys.

I would give Vihta N110 a try if you really want to go slow.

Quickload is a great tool to develop this kind of loads. I did it for the 9.3x74 and the .338 WM and it worked great.

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:
I would give Vihta N110 a try if you really want to go slow.

Quickload is a great tool to develop this kind of loads. I did it for the 9.3x74 and the .338 WM and it worked great.

Not really too slow, the goal is to keep the recoil as modest as possible and still make the old African standard of 2150-2200fps with a 400gr bullet. We still want good accuracy (the guns shoot 1moa w/Remington Factory 400gr A-frames) and total reliability.

My opinioin only!!!! A gun is going to shoot what it likes. Reduced loads just dont work well, yes they work and at 50 yards it may not be a problem, that is up to the guys with experience here. .. there are very few powders that will work well in these big guns when you figure in powder compression, barrel harmonics, and to me magnums are more tempermental than the rest..(my expereince is with the .45-70 and .45long colt, and .458 win mag, the .45lc and 45-70 are black powder cartriges and have more case than powder with smokeless. If you put about 1000 rounds thru it you probably will get some succesfull loads, albiet youl be entering a very poor loading data area to give you a figghting chance.. . Ive studied the .416 gun weight,velocity,recoil figures and personally would not get into the .416 series if recoil is a problem..for some reason recoil is quite abit worse than the .375 or even the .458 with the same talor or thornally kill values,(yes they are thoerys) .. . My buck is on selling it and getting a .375 and placing an accurate shot.. Altho if you spend the time you might break some ice with your .416, it depends how much time you have... But again without the correct amount of powder, and compression you will tend to get fliers.. The .458 has mountains of load data for all kinds of loads and the lighter bullets crack, but the 500 grn tend to push rather than jolt, altho a big push.. Ive never shot a .416 so throw this under the rug or into the trash if you wish, and if im wrong i hope others will straiten me out.. Another problem is you will need to be proficient with the gun, and im GUESSING but the ph is going to start you on smaller game and have you shoot it enough to be satisfied with your efficiency on the hunt.. If this causes problems your safari could be a dissapointment with the ph putting the final kill on your trophy... Im just giving you the other side of the coin- you do as you wish. Have a great and succesful hunt, what i say probably doesnt matter, just another side.. .and my opinion only... . Dave

Another option to do this correctly and you want to keep that gun is to have a smith move the barrel back 1/4- 3/8 inch and have the dies altered or custom built, form the brass with the dies and inside neck turn the mouth to keep it from beeing too thick.. Just a thought. Kind of like the .458 lott in reverse!,.. just a thought.. dave

There will be absolutely no problems with RL-15 or Varget load accuracy in reduced loads of 85% or greater case fill with powder,
if you use enough Dacron fiber filler to pack it tight.
I have done the same for 450 Dakota.
No problems.
Best accuracy, and least recoil for velocity obtained.