The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .416 caliber Woodleigh FMJGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Howdy Gents. I don't know if these questions belong here or in the Reloading section, but here goes. Apologize in advance if they are stupid questions. I recently bought a Dakota Traveler in .416 Remington. It came with three boxes of Dakota Arms loaded ammunition, loaded with the 410 grain Woodleigh FMJ. Now my understanding is the 410 grain bullet is meant for the .416 Rigby and the 400 grain is meant for the .416 Rem. I have been told Woodleigh does not recommend the 410 grain bullet for the Rem. for reasons such as seating depth, overall cartridge length, cannelure/crimping, etc. Now, why would Dakota (or their subcontractor) load the .416 Rem with that incorrect bullet? Since Dakota regulated and filed the iron sights with the 410 grain bullet, will my results using 400 grain bullets be significantly different? Thanks. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | ||
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Properly reloaded rounds won't see much difference in 10 grains of bullet weight. Only way to check things are with a chrony at the range. Fire a couple, check the velocity and look for the normal pressure signs....primers....bolt lift...blah...blah. I use 400 gr Wood solids in my 404 Jeff and love them....and of course, my bore dia is .423. Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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You probably won't notice much difference if any. Like GarBy said, chrony the factory loads and try to duplicate them with reloads. That would, at least, be a good starting point. David | |||
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Some years ago now, I bought some 410 gr Woodleigh FMJs for the Rigby I had built on a ZKK602. When They arrived I was not that happy with them because the cannelure was relatively far forward on them, certainly compared to the 416 Hornady FMJs I had got from Huntingdons,that was before Hornady listed them themselves, & even compared with the cannelure on the 410 gr Woodleigh softpoints. I passed them onto a friend who had a 416 Remington & he found that the cannelure was ideally placed for this round.Both bullets measure approx 1.4" long, the Hornady cannelure is 0.87" from the bullet nose, the Woodleigh is 0.75" from the nose. Possibly your Dakota rounds are loaded with these. I certainly wouldn't worry about the extra 10gr weight, I doubt it will affect accuracy out to open sight ranges with such a calibre. Steve | |||
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Yes, they will shoot 20 ft. low at 25 yards. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will, Will, Will... ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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I apologize and note that I hesitate even to suggest this, as it may require a certain amount of personal initiative and desire to learn first hand, which in this case may be lacking, and which would in any case require the actual firing of loaded ammunition at actual targets placed at known ranges, and which would therefore detract from the the general level of ballistical theorizing and so forth that appears to be sought after, and which as a result might tend to reduce the level of academic interest generally in this subject, but bearing all of that in mind, I will nonetheless and with some admitted temerity suggest that one could possibly shoot the actual ammuntion in the actual rifle and thereby find out for certain the answer to one's question, rather than indulge in the asking of one's question to an unknown and patently unreliable audience, which more often than not issues responses that amount to little more than mindless conjecture. Your results may vary, of course, as this is merely my two cents, and insofar as experts have found definitively that actual mileage is invariably dependent on aggregate combustion chamber displacement, and in latter days also on the ratio of the escalating price of gasoline to that of hybrid vehicles. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I think he's trying to say that best you get out there & give it a go & see what happens, & take no notice of what any of us say, least of all Will  as he thinks we're a bunch of unreliable know nothings. At least thats what I think he was saying but there were far to many big words & far to few full stops for a bear of little brain like me to fully comprehend it all.  Steve | |||
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Alf, nowadays Woodleigh loads two weights for the two catridges, 410 for the Rigby & 400 for the Remington & with cannelures in the appropriate place on each. 15-16 years ago when I ordered mine for a Rigby, they arrived cannelured for the Remington, but were definitely 410 grns. I Have a 3rd edition Woodleigh bullet board from about 1992, the 410 gr FMJ on that is definitely cannelured for the Rigby in virtually identical position to the Huntingdon/Hornady FMJ I mentioned earlier. I would suspect the different weights now make this kind of confusion less likely. Steve | |||
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That is the longest sentence I have read in recent memory. Reminds me of some 19th Century writers, trying to make a point... | |||
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Okay, granted the shooting of the ammo will be instructive and was one question that I could have answered myself by, well, shooting the ammo. The question remains however, which I asked this knowledgable group, is why would Dakota Arms load the incorrect bullet? Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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I would really think the answer to that question would be 'ASK DAKOTA', as I have absolutely no idea how they arrive at ANY decision to do ANYTHING and probably neither does anyone on these forums. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Call Dakota Arms 605-347-4686 and ask for Ward Dobler......he is the guy you want to ask, as he is the ballistics guy at Dakota. | |||
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Alf as usual has it exactly right, but I'll help him out and translate into a format us mere mortals can understand: The Rigby has a longer cartridge and chamber dimension so the traditional 410gr bullet (both soft & solid) when seated to the cannelure did not fit in the 416 Rem. Hornady use to make them that way as well so when the 416 Rem came out, they had to redesign the bullet in order to fit by moving the cannelure forward, the bullet shorter and dropping the weight by 10 grains. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Just by way of illusrating my earlier post a couple of pics to show the difference in cannelure position between the previously mentioned Woodleigh 410gr with the "Remington" cannelure & the Hornady 410gr with the "Rigby" cannelure. 1st pic is of the two bullets with a sectioned example beside each, Woodleigh to left, Hornady to right, with in between a Hornady with Hybrid crimping which shows the difference in the two positions quite well. I think I hauled this out of a Federal 416 Rigby & replaced it with a Woodleigh as they were 'sposed to be loaded with at the time. It was crimped into the front cannelure, http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/shinz1/416FMJs.jpg  Then a pic of a 416 Remington flanked by a Norma 416 Rigby case with a Hornady bullet to its right & a Federal 416 Rigby case with the short cannelured Woodleigh bullet to its left. These are flanked by Kynoch loaded 416 Rigbys.  Don't know if this helps, as long as they're loaded to a length that fits in your magazine they should shoot OK. Steve | |||
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Thanks for the pics and the effort expended for same. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I have used both without any problems what so ever... However, on my big bores, I always turn about 3 or 4 thousands off my resizer button to give the case more purchase on the bullets, then use a powder that fills the case to about half way up the neck, then seat the bullet wherever I want it with a very light crimp..It works. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ammo porn, nearly as good as rifle porn or hunting porn. Steve. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .416 caliber Woodleigh FMJ
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