I am aware of several laminated wood stock blanks available: Rutland's ubiquitous birch; obeche; walnut-maple; walnut; and Kilimanjaro's walnut laminate. Most are 15-18 plies per inch, but some have thicker plies.

Excluding Kilimanjaro's laminate that I cannot afford, are there significant mechanical differences among the various wood laminates? I specifically do not refer to colors, quality of finish the wood accepts, difficulty shaping, or other cosmetic differences; cosmetics can be rendered whatever way I am willing to pay for. I am interested in the wood's ability to take a beating over the long haul.

Please allow me to ramble:

A laminate is only as good as its individual layers/veneers.
I would trust good walnut more than birch.
The individual veneers are not fully penetrated by epoxy.
They are just stuck together by epoxy.
Each layer of the veneer is still only as strong as the wood it is made of.
Strong wood veneers make a strong laminate.

Bedding blocks, crossbolts, pillars: They all make a wood stock stronger, whether laminate or finest walnut.

My record of splitting stocks: 2 birch laminate stocks broken for each walnut stock broken

I have never broken a "quality" synthetic stock with a full bedding block. That would exclude MPI on "quality" grounds as well as lack of bedding block.

I second RIP's opinion. Laminates can be very strong but since there's almost no way to check their internal integrity, they need to be treated just like natural wood. Specifically, cross bolts for a heavy kicker. The axis of lamination is in the same plane as the axis of stress (not to be confused with the Axis of Evil) so any weakness or defect in a single ply is going to cause a split, even though the balance of the stock may be much stronger than solid wood.

Rip my mpi has stood up to a 100 rounds of 505 gibbs most were 140 gr loads but there were 20 150 gr loads. They do come rough and are sold mostly to the profesional who have the skills to finish them, or bedded and finished in house.

If you are building a hard kicker tell them and they can add layers to make it more durable.

JD

I have developed the skills of a master fiberglass boat builder by finishing one MPI stock. Never more.

quote:

Never more

A southern expression, brings make memories.



B&C or McM is the way to go eh??

My two favorites, jahwol, McMillan now second choice to the tops B&C "Kevlar" with full bedding block, "ever more."

Can't speak for laminated stocks on big bores, but have used and observed over the years such stocks cracking at the wrist area on match purpose rifles. Most of these rifles are at most 300WinMag or similar power range cartridges or 308. Mind you these stocks are far beefier than sporting rifle stocks, even big bores, and cost exceeds 1000.00 I have one currently on bolt gun/XC style and was advised to install "all thread*" down through the wrist area to strengthen that area in the wrist. These stocks are anything but flimsy and was told that the reason for the breakage at the wrist area was due to the curvature of the grip area creating a weakened area(stress??) compared to the supposed overall strength of the laminated stock?? These rifles are worked hard with thousands of rounds per year and in general handled far more than sporting rifles. Have seen at least three laminated stocks suddenly have the butt section snap off during matches, broke at the wrist.
Friend who is fortunate to travel the globe in matches had his break off in South Africa Palma match.
*all thread is placed vertically with nut on each end, torqued, and expoxied in place. Hole is drilled at angle going from top to behind rear action screw.

I have laminate on my CZ in 416 Wby - have taken more than 3000 rounds now (second barrel just mounted) - never an issue..

have ordered a Accurate Innovations laminated stock for my comming 500 AccRel - with an integral alu bedding block - just like the B&C Medalist stock RIP writes about. I expect it to perform well for many years to come..

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I have developed the skills of a master fiberglass boat builder by finishing one MPI stock. Never more.

I surrendered my apprenticeship 1/4 way through. Actually I think Jeffe was pulling my string when he gave it to me.

In the case of Rutland's laminated birch blanks, and perhaps others, plies' adhesive is not epoxy. It is a gooey, flexible material that appears to set/become firmer with age.

I bought two specially made Rutland blanks in the middle 1990s that became stocks for Ferguson Officer's [Sporting] Model flintlock rifles. These blanks were substantially thicker than Rutland's standard blanks - and rather expensive. Adhesive was a shocker because I was expecting a thermosetting adhesive and observed the gooey flexible adhesive I mentioned earlier. When my stock maker had completed the first stock, the goo had metamorphosed to nearly rigid.

Unfortunately, this knowledge does not address my concerns. . . . And the Fergusons were destroyed in my gun maker's shop fire about a month after I futzed with the one that had been nearly completed.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I have developed the skills of a master fiberglass boat builder by finishing one MPI stock. Never more.

I did it backwards and built 4 boats before playing with my first MPI stock. I got another fiberglass stock from someone else and it was just as bad as the mpi. Price wise the mpi are a good deal if you don't mind putting in the work. The nappa krinkle finish has potential but takes for ever to dry. It hides a lot and gives a nice texture. Most of the mpi I have , I haven t even painted, because I am always fighting weight limits on some of my match rifles. Paint does add weight.

JD

It is interesting how experiences vary, here and everywhere else.

As I have written before, I have several MPI stocks, the newest of which has now been in use for about 25 years. One of them is a .30 belted Newton (.30/.338) chambering. I consider it heavy recoiling as scope and all it is under 8 pounds weight.

I have had no trouble of any kind whatsoever with the MPIs. I simply let MPI build, fit & finish them, so they could see for themselves what the applications were and work accordingly, and they did very fine work on them.

My few experences with wood laminates leads me to prefer classic 1/8" maple/walnut. The degree to which the epoxy "glue" penetrates the wood appears to depend in part on the degree to which it is thinned before application to the wood.

The least sturdy laminates I have had are the Shehane stocks intended for benchrest use. The last one I got was of very soft, porous wood. It is okay for my intended use of it...a relatively small benchrest cartridge in a very large, thick, stock.

I personally would not chose a Shehane for a heavy cartridge in a light weight stock, though they may well turn out to be very successful in even that application.