A couple of years ago I decided I wanted a "bear rifle" for hunting in Alaska. At first I thought I wanted the .375 H&H but decided later that I wanted a short barrel on my rifle and didn't want to lose anything in the way of velocity. So after much reading I stumbled upon the .375 Wtby and started to research that possiblity. I acquired a set of .375 Wtby dies and found a Sako stainless/synthetic rifle with a 20" barrel that I was going to rechamber.

But after crunching the number's I realized that I was getting myself into a very spendy venture (for my budget). The used Sako was nearly $1000 and the work to the rifle to rechamber it to the Wtby was nearly $500. That was before getting together brass and bullets and experimenting with loads for the rifle. So I started researching other possiblities before committing to the Wtby.

In all of my reading and research the Remington Ultra Mag's kept popping up. I have never been on the RUM "band wagon"... Yep I was the guy saying "what do you need that for!" But after looking at all the ballistics and load data out there and comparing the Wtby to the .375 RUM I decided to go with the RUM. For one, the availability of brass was better with the RUM. Two I could find a more cost effective rifle already chambered in the RUM, so I started looking at rifles.

Remington apparently was the only factory rifle chambered in the .375 RUM. The only 2 ways they offered the rifle were with a 26" and a 24" barrel. Since I wanted open sights and a short barrel (20") I went with one of the Extreme Conditions Rifle's (XCR) with the 24" barrel. It was between $800 & 900... So I picked one up and just dropped it off at the gunsmith to have the barrel chopped down to 21"s.

What kind of preformance can I expect at most hunting distances with the shorter barrel. I mean 300 yards being at the extreme long distance end of the spectrum. I am keeping this rifle scopeless because I'm using it primarily for close range work on big bears, but if I scoped it and took it to the 300 yard line will I notice a significant difference in performance? I'm new to the barrel chop game and just want to know what to expect. As far as I'm aware, chopping the barrel will reduce velocity, but will it in the same respect also reduce accuracy as well, the general consensus in most of my reading is if the crown is properly done accuracy shouldn't change.... Any information is welcome. Thanks!

- Clint

P.S. here's a pic before the chop, I'll take a pic of it Wednesday when I get it back...

By "bobbing" 3" off the barrel you may see as much as 150 fps loss in velocity or as little as 100 fps, not much difference (so I've read, I have no experience with shortening a RUM barrel). Accuracy should not be affected as long as it is crowned properly.
From all reports I've heard that the recoil on the 375 RUM is stiff, may take some getting used to. Looks like you will have a Big bear rifle for sure when you get used to the recoil.
Good Luck with your project!

Accuracy should still be on par with say, a 22" barrel, if it is bedded and sighted in good. Mostly, the rifle will always do more than what a persons skill is capable of doing, provided it is built and finished properly. As far as velocity,-this should not be of much consequence, from say, a 22"-24" barrel. Although it effects velocity, it is not enough of a change to give any more thought to, and given the conditions of your hunting area in Alaska, is perfectly understandable. Furthermore, I respect your decision to go with the RUM. I love that cartridge, and it's offspring.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
By "bobbing" 3" off the barrel you may see as much as 150 fps loss in velocity or as little as 100 fps, not much difference (so I've read, I have no experience with shortening a RUM barrel). Accuracy should not be affected as long as it is crowned properly.
From all reports I've heard that the recoil on the 375 RUM is stiff, may take some getting used to. Looks like you will have a Big bear rifle for sure when you get used to the recoil.
Good Luck with your project!

I've already shot 20 rounds through the rifle to see how it shoots before the barrel chop. It has one of the Limbsaver recoil pads on it and I would compare the recoil at no worse than my .300 Weatherby. In fact I would rather shoot the .375...

As far as losing 100-150 fps, I was aware of the lose, thats why I stepped up the case capacity from the H&H to the RUM. At least I can load the RUM at H&H velocities on up and exceeded Wtby velocities. I like the RUM's now after researching them!

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by walksfar:
Accuracy should still be on par with say, a 22" barrel, if it is bedded and sighted in good. Mostly, the rifle will always do more than what a persons skill is capable of doing, provided it is built and finished properly. As far as velocity,-this should not be of much consequence, from say, a 22"-24" barrel. Although it effects velocity, it is not enough of a change to give any more thought to, and given the conditions of your hunting area in Alaska, is perfectly understandable. Furthermore, I respect your decision to go with the RUM. I love that cartridge, and it's offspring.

Thanks for the reply, the gentleman that I chose to do the work to the rifle said he wouldn't go any shorter than 21"s so that's what I asked him to do. Basically I wanted a very short heavy hitter. It seems that's what I got. I am going bear hunting in a week. If I get one I'll share pics and give a good field report of the performance of the .375 RUM!

- Clint

I have checked these two different rifles, not the same barrel:

1) .378 Wby with 22" barrel, rechambered BRNO ZKK 602 .375 H&H

2) .378 Wby with 25" barrel, rechambered CZ 550 Magnum .375 H&H

With the "hot" Weatherby factory loads (300-grain FMJ) in these two different rifles, here is what I got:

22" velocity = 2840 fps, and pierced primers.

25" velocity = 2911 fps, and no pressure signs.

I surmise that my 22" .378 Weatherby is tighter chambered/throated/barreled, and should not use the factory ammo, rather handloads, which I prefer anyway: much more accurate than Weatherby factory loads.

I also chronographed the factory .375 RUM loads with 300-grain Swift bullets in a 26" barreled factory M700 LSS and got a 2780 fps average for 14 shots chronographed, high of 2831fps, low of 2751 fps, SD = 24 fps, at 74 degrees F. Three shots would go into 0.549" at 100 yards, even with this variability. M700's out of the box are usually very accurate, eh?

Then in a different rifle barrel, a Win M70 with the shank cut off and re-threaded, for finished length of 23", chambered for .375 RUM with a short throat, mounted on a CZ 550 magnum action, average for 13 shots at 65 degrees F was 2784 fps, with the same factory loads, 300-grain Swifts.

However, this rifle cratered and pierced primers, extruded brass, and subsequently had its throat lengthened to that of a .375 Wby configuration. I have not re-chronographed the factory loads in the new throat, but I have fired the factory ammo with good results in this re-throated 23" rifle, on paper and on deer.

It is certainly possible you will only lose about 100 fps in bobbing your barrel 3" from 24" to 21", maybe less.

Did you chronograph it at the 24" length?
The velocity part of this discussion is purely academic if you did not.

Accuracy may be even better in the shorter barrel, as it is stiffer, and the muzzle whip will be of lesser amplitude for the same contour barrel. Probably not an issue at all except for sight radius with iron sights, and even that does not amount to much.

I think 23" is short enough for my tastes on any bolt action.

That means I would prefer 27" barrels on a double rifle or a single shot.

FWIW, using AccuLoadIII, some of the .375RUM loads with 300 grain Swift A-Frame bullet length only lose 55 fps from 24" length to 21" length barrel. This is assuming 1.297" bullet length, and 120 grains H2O case gross capacity with 3.600" COL.

Does anyone else chamber the .375 RUM besides Remington, does sako, Ithink the do the .300 RUM don't they or at least in there 75 series. ??

RIP, no I didn't chrono the 24" barrel. I just bought it and have barely shot it. If I ever do shoot it at game it's going to be less than 100 yard shots. I do some "calling" for bear and plan on using this rifle for peeling them off of me at 10 yards or less... I also go spot and stalk hunting with friends and wanted the fire power available when the SHTF in the alders so to speak.

Anyway I appreciate your post, it's reconfirmed some of my thoughts. I guess the velocity aspect of this discussion as you say is indeed academic. My main concern originally was to exceed .375 H&H velocities while also having a short barrel and I believe I've accomplished that. I just didn't want to give up accuracy for the short barrel. I guess that was my main concern... Like I said, I'm a newbie to the barrel bobbing game and it shows!

Thanks again RIP!

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
FWIW, using AccuLoadIII, some of the .375RUM loads with 300 grain Swift A-Frame bullet length only lose 55 fps from 24" length to 21" length barrel. This is assuming 1.297" bullet length, and 120 grains H2O case gross capacity with 3.600" COL.

RIP I'm loading 300 gr. Barnes TSX's over 97gr's of RL22 in Remington brass w/Federal 215 primers. The first time I took the rifle out I was hitting a soda can at 100 yards standing and shooting offhand with open sights. If I can maintain that amount of accuracy with a 21" barrel I'll be 100% satisfied. I put 20 rounds through it and it didn't even leave a bruise so I'm pretty happy with the results so far!

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
Does anyone else chamber the .375 RUM besides Remington, does sako, Ithink the do the .300 RUM don't they or at least in there 75 series. ??

I couldn't find anything chambered in the .375 RUM aside from Remington in a factory gun. If Sako chambered it I probably would have bought one.

- Clint

Rip, I'd like to see that 22" barreled 378 go off with a full load of 7828. Anything under 50 yds should be very dead and lightly toasted.

quote:

Originally posted by MTM:
Rip, I'd like to see that 22" barreled 378 go off with a full load of 7828. Anything under 50 yds should be very dead and lightly toasted.

Heh, heh, the muzzle blast is a bit more pronounced. Would be worse with a muzzle brake, but thankfully I have never used a muzzle brake on any 378 Wby.

Indeed 111 grains of IMR-7828 seems to work well with any 300-grainer and pierces no primers in any 378 Wby chamber I have tried it in.

I also have a Mark V 378 Wby take-off barrel that a buddy shortened to 22", grew disenchanted with and sold it to me "cheap." It has Wby factory iron sights and a recoil lug on the barrel, and should make for a nice conversation piece if screwed onto a Mark V action in an HS Precision stock ... soon as I finish burning out the barrel of that 30-378 Wby Mk V.

Welcome to the forums. You know that you're missing crawfish season huh?

I personally don't think game shot within any sane hunting range could tell the difference between a 21 verses a 24 in bbl. The only thing may be a increase in mussel blast.
I had a short barreled Sako carbine in 375 H&H and I think the trade off in velocity was minor compared to the improvement in handling for tight cover. After all that is the main reason for a short barrel rifle. When in open country a 26 inch barrel isn’t a problem because there is nothing to catch it on.
Bill

Sako made a 300 RUM in their 75 briefly....I own one. I don't think they ever made one in 338 or 375 RUM, and don't show one in the catalog now.

I own a Sako AV Battue in 375 H&H. It has about 19" of barrel plus a brake on it. Velocity is not what I'd like, but it sure handles like a dream. If I ever rebarrel it it will get a longer tube.

Enjoy your new toy, and good luck on the hunt!

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Welcome to the forums. You know that you're missing crawfish season huh?

I'm from south of Lake Charles.... Cameron Parish! I haven't had a crawfish in 6 long years! The trade off is the great hunting this State has to offer. I really do love it here!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
I personally don't think game shot within any sane hunting range could tell the difference between a 21 verses a 24 in bbl. The only thing may be a increase in mussel blast.
I had a short barreled Sako carbine in 375 H&H and I think the trade off in velocity was minor compared to the improvement in handling for tight cover. After all that is the main reason for a short barrel rifle. When in open country a 26 inch barrel isn’t a problem because there is nothing to catch it on.
Bill

I totally agree! But I don't want to find out otherwise when it counts the most!

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskacajun:
I totally agree! But I don't want to find out otherwise when it counts the most!

- Clint

If it doesn't scare you to go into the weeds with a brown bear with a pushfeed Rem 700,with a beer can extractor, the short barrel shouldn't bother you at all!

RIP, not to sidetrack to thread but 111 grs. of 7828 with the 300 TSX was the load I settled on. 113 started to show brass flow, extraction was still normal.

I respect the choice of 375 RUM but why not a 458? With a 400 to 450 gr cup point I can see no better stopper in a short barrel gun. You won't feel it go off if you have the bear coming to a call. THAT would be some hair raising shots! I'm just thinking about how a coyote almost ran up my back when calling one time here in Misery. Good shootin'. Packy

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskacajun:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
FWIW, using AccuLoadIII, some of the .375RUM loads with 300 grain Swift A-Frame bullet length only lose 55 fps from 24" length to 21" length barrel. This is assuming 1.297" bullet length, and 120 grains H2O case gross capacity with 3.600" COL.

RIP I'm loading 300 gr. Barnes TSX's over 97gr's of RL22 in Remington brass w/Federal 215 primers. The first time I took the rifle out I was hitting a soda can at 100 yards standing and shooting offhand with open sights. If I can maintain that amount of accuracy with a 21" barrel I'll be 100% satisfied. I put 20 rounds through it and it didn't even leave a bruise so I'm pretty happy with the results so far!

- Clint

Quickload doesn't have the Barnes TSX in it, but with the 300X and loaded to 3.6" it showed to be over pressure at 70k. Don't know if this relates to anything realworld or not.
Anyway, for the 24" bbl it spit out 2852fps and 2765fps for the 21" bbl.
Quickload has been real close on velocity predictions for most everything that I've used it for.
It might be nice to see if you could chrono your load before and after the smith chops the barrel. Sounds like things are comeing down to the last minute though.
Sounds like it should be a beast.
Good luck on the hunt and take some pics to post.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37:
If it doesn't scare you to go into the weeds with a brown bear with a pushfeed Rem 700,with a beer can extractor, the short barrel shouldn't bother you at all!
QUOTE]

Good point, and now it doesn't bother me... that's why I asked. I could crawl in the weeds with a TC Encore and feel just as safe as I do with the Remy, the extractor doesn't matter to me, all I need is one shot!

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by packrattusnongratus:
I respect the choice of 375 RUM but why not a 458? With a 400 to 450 gr cup point I can see no better stopper in a short barrel gun. You won't feel it go off if you have the bear coming to a call. THAT would be some hair raising shots! I'm just thinking about how a coyote almost ran up my back when calling one time here in Misery. Good shootin'. Packy

I've always wanted a .375... I usually do this type of hunting with a .300 Weatherby, so the .375 is more than enough gun for me. I'll also be using it on black bear and can only imagine what some of the bigger calibers would do to one after seeing what was left of one after a shot from a .416 Remington a couple of years ago.

Thanks for the replies, I'll have pics up in a couple of days...

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskacajun:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
I personally don't think game shot within any sane hunting range could tell the difference between a 21 verses a 24 in bbl. The only thing may be a increase in mussel blast.
I had a short barreled Sako carbine in 375 H&H and I think the trade off in velocity was minor compared to the improvement in handling for tight cover. After all that is the main reason for a short barrel rifle. When in open country a 26 inch barrel isn’t a problem because there is nothing to catch it on.
Bill

I totally agree! But I don't want to find out otherwise when it counts the most!

- Clint

Clint,
I think you are obsessing over nothing. The difference in velocity is not enough to change how the bullet will perform. I would say if you do have concerns that a 375 RUM. Won’t get the job done you should move up in caliber say a 20 inch 458 lot with 500 gr bullets at say 2200 should be a stopper.
“Good point, and now it doesn't bother me... that's why I asked. I could crawl in the weeds with a TC Encore and feel just as safe as I do with the Remy, the extractor doesn't matter to me, all I need is one shot!â€
Just curious if you only need 1 shot. Why are you crawling in the weeds???
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley: Just curious if you only need 1 shot. Why are you crawling in the weeds???
Bill

Because thats where the bears are, besides it was MacD37's words that I was using, not mine. The proper term for the "weeds" in Alaska would be the "Bush" or the "Alders"... You know you Texas Boys have strange words to describe everything......

I'm not really concerned about losing a lot of knock down with the .375 RUM, thats why I chose it over the H&H. I was primarily unaware as to how much velocity and/or accuracy I would lose after the barrel modification. The reason I went with the RUM is because I didn't want "not having enough thump" to ever be an issue. Apparently it won't be!

- Clint

....In Southeast we call it the Brush....I think it will be an execelent rifle.....And MUCH more versitile than you may think..I,ve muckeled ahold of a couple of those Extreme Wx. Remington 375 s in different stores and I think they are ideal,,,, Till they break a stock that is...I,ve not shot one yet but from what you say about that pad and how the synthetic stock soaks up recoil I,de like to try one...The fore runner of the 375 Ruger alaskan is what you are makeing

Clint
The "Bush" or the "Alders"... You know you Texas Boys have strange words to describe everything......
Yes Yes we do I won’t use or words to describe Cagun!!!
I think accuracy should be ok if the shop did a good job of cutting the barel square and cutting a new crown properly it may shoot better.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
Clint
The "Bush" or the "Alders"... You know you Texas Boys have strange words to describe everything......
Yes Yes we do I won’t use or words to describe Cagun!!!
I think accuracy should be ok if the shop did a good job of cutting the barel square and cutting a new crown properly it may shoot better.
Bill

I'm sure I've already heard them all! I work with a fella from Spring, Texas and he just can't come up with enough insults for this poor coonass!

I talked to Stan today and he said the barrel is cut and he's installing the sights so I should be able to pick up the rifle tomorrow. I'll take pics and post 'em if it's ready.....

- Clint

AKJUN;; who is doing the work,,

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskacajun:
[
Good point, I could crawl in the weeds with a TC Encore and feel just as safe as I do with the Remy, the extractor doesn't matter to me, all I need is one shot!

- Clint

Yeh, all the dangerous game I've killed took only one shot as well! We's bad shooters Huh?

What part od Louisiana are you from? My wife has reatives all over Acadiana, mainly Lafayette. Her family name is Peschier!

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
AKJUN;; who is doing the work,,

"Stan's Shop" off of Klatt Road in Los Anchorage! He's about 100 years old but man does he do good work.

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Yeh, all the dangerous game I've killed took only one shot as well! We's bad shooters Huh?

What part od Louisiana are you from? My wife has reatives all over Acadiana, mainly Lafayette. Her family name is Peschier!

Yeah well you know how it is in Southwest Luziana... Dad started me off young and I love to shoot. It's nothing for me to bring my boys out and let them burn through 1000 rounds of .223 in the AR-15's and .22's. My 11 year old can hit a beer bottle with the AR with open sights at 50 yards on the first shot...

I came to Alaska in the military (USAF) when I was 20. I came from Lake Charles Louisiana originally. I'm 32 now, and can't imagine living anywhere else in the world than right here.

- Clint

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskacajun:

Yeah well you know how it is in Southwest Luziana... Dad started me off young and I love to shoot. It's nothing for me to bring my boys out and let them burn through 1000 rounds of .223 in the AR-15's and .22's. My 11 year old can hit a beer bottle with the AR with open sights at 50 yards on the first shot...

I came to Alaska in the military (USAF) when I was 20. I came from Lake Charles Louisiana originally. I'm 32 now, and can't imagine living anywhere else in the world than right here.

- Clint

I agree! I almost trnsfered up to Anchorage back in the 90s, when my company bought out an airline that had routes into Anchorage. I would have had to go part time, and side work for an airplne machinic is non existant, because there is a A&P license in every wallet in Alaska! I'd like to live up around Trapper's Creek, or Talkeetna. Done a lot of hunting in Alaska, and I wish I'd moved there a long time ago, but I retired back in 1996, and went on a fixed income, and at 70 yrs of age, you have to be close to doctors, you know! So to all the young guys out there who think they'd like to live in Alaska, do it sooner, not later!

Well here it is... I put 10 rounds through it today and think I'm gonna call it "Old Painless!"

THEN


NOW


- Clint

That looks real nice Chronograph it when you cal will you ?? ....

I'll try but it's bear season and I'll be pretty booked for time over the next month. Maybe I can squeeze a range day in during the work week!

- Clint

Well I took "Old Painless" out today for the first time, to help a friend carry bait to his baitstand. When we arrived at our destination it began to sleet and snow. I had to walk over 2 miles through that with the XCR over my shoulder. It didn't seem to mind either.

When we arrived at the baitsite, I poored the water and snow out of the barrel and allowed one of my buddys to shoot it. He liked this rifle so much that he bought one in .338 RUM a month ago. We got a few rounds off out of each rifle and decided that mine was considerably louder. It kicks a little harder than the .338 RUM but not much in my opinion.

Other than that it was a nasty day but apparently this is what the XCR was made for. We had an awesome time and I look forward to bringing my oldest son up again next weekend for the first check. If he gets a bear I'll take pics and share them with yall!

- Clint