To avoid the high costs of the (obviously value priced) Searcy AND simultanoeusly avoid all the ATF/NFA paperwork, why not find a good gunsmith to put together black powder howdahs from a Pedersoli 12 bore shotgun or even use their 12 bore "express" rifle as a parent weapon? The fact that it is a front stuffer, I believe, eliminates the need for any NFA garbage and you could have the thing made for a bunch less than the above mentioned options. Further, since the howdah was originally a "last resort" type of weapon, I doubt the ability to reload quickly was really a concern when the tiger was in the basket with you atop your pachyderm. Obviously, checking with the Firearms Technology branch of the ATF would be necessary and it would probably be a good idea to carry around the letter from them whenever you had the gun out just in case some "officer friendly" got overly zealous in his interpretation of the law but I think this would be well worth the effort. How many do you think we could order to get the costs of manufacture down? Any opinions? Anyone know a gunsmith capable of such a conversion?

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

[ 04-22-2003, 21:41: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

John,
If you find a gunsmith let me know. Maybe we could get a group of people together and get a gunsmith to make us some frontstuffers. As for mine I want over under barrels, you?
Andy

[ 04-22-2003, 23:28: Message edited by: CZ 550 ]

cz

sxs for sure

A couple of thoughts. CVA imported a sxs percussion shotgun from Spain. You can usually find them for around used for about $300, which is less than the Pedersoli. Pedersoli by the way will not recommend more than 70 grains of ffg for that shotgun. CVA will go a bit higher about 80 grains.

You can purchase .69 cal round balls from Midwayusa.

I would not advise cutting the barrels too short, as the black powder not burn completely in too short a barrel, forcing you to reduce your load.

In essence, you are talking about a 70-80 (as compared to a 45-70 shooting black powder) which would stop most game at very short range. You could also have the muzzles tapped for choke tubes. This would allow you to get a set of rifled choke tubes from say Colonial Arms. You could then find a source for hollow based 69 cal slugs. In essence create your own Paradox rifle, for less than usual asking price of $10,000.

Pete

If we do find a gunsmith to do this do you think we could get a group of people together to get them and maybe get a group rate?
Andy

I thought of this about two weeks ago and asked the question in the 'Blackpowder' forum here on AR but got nowhere ("why you would want to do that is beyond me...toys are cool. But there are a shit load of great pistols out there, that would be far better.")
http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000387

If someone could crank out some .72cal ML double pistols (I've already got a .72cal Kodiak double rifle) I'd be interested. I've been looking to do it myself with a used ML double 12ga.

BMG
Do you think there is anyone on this board capable of making them?

'Capable'. Yes, without a doubt.
'Willing'. Probably for the right price. Check into the gunsmith forum.

Jim Gefroh in colorado may be intersted in such a thing as he currently builds 4 bore and 8 bore front stuffers. I would think he would love the idea of a big bore double pistol. Steve Ferguson, who posts on this board may have contact information. I will look around and see if I still have any way to get hold of him.

JohnTheGreek

i have his number do you guys want it

hey john hows it hangin

speaking of 8 bores i have 1 on order jims done most the roughing work now all that need to be done is final fitting and poishing

[ 04-23-2003, 01:00: Message edited by: black-powder-big-bore ]

jim gefrohs number is 1-970-377-9564

thanks steve. Did you ever sell the 4-bore? Man, I would still love one of those guns but they are lower on my priority list than hunting.

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

JTG,

I would be interested in a 12 or 16 gauge howda sxs percussion rig. It would be a perfect backup for a black powder antelope hunt, and just a good camp gun.

This is looking promising guys. One question though, am I the only one that wants over under barrels? After seeing Charles Remington's rig in Ghost and the Darkness some years back I can't seem to get my mind off of it.
Andy

I think the over under bbls would have a harder time regulating with a different height above the grip.

I would only be interested in sxs.

A question regarding regulation of Howdah pistols.

Were the original Howdahs regulated at all?

I remember reading that they really weren't regulated as they were intended to be used at extremely close range ie almost touching distance. There main intended use was to defend oneself from a tiger attacking one's elephant mount, where often the rifle barrel was too long to be used.

What's the cheapest way to make one? Use a saw and some sandpaper on a Pedersolli BP double rifle, or am I in complete ignorance missing some technical issue?

[ 04-23-2003, 14:56: Message edited by: NitroX ]

Well, I really should look before I leap. I just found a .62 cal original o/u pistol on gunbroker. Seems there is always the exception to the rule.

o/u pistol:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=8502927

Some likely candidates:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=8462483

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=8499047

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=4233560

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=4233559

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=4215573

Pete

Talked to Jim Gefroh on the phone a minute ago. He's doing some checking into what it will take to make one. He said he can only do o/u's unfortunately though. I'll be having mine built with a swivel breech as he has a friend who makes really nice swivel action rifles. Its gonna be a 12 bore with very light rifling. He's really fired up about the project and was a joy to talk with, anyone interested I suggest giving him a call. Blackpowderbigbore, thanks for the number.
Andy

no problem cz

na i never did sell that 4 bore im still trying though but with work its hard to advertise it alot.

i got my supplys in from butch searcy

40 peices of 700 nitro brass dies and rcbs big max press. and shell holder.

ill be loading up a few rounds and when my rifle comes in ill have some ready.

jim said he can only make over and under howdas thats weird?

you might wanna try joe at the gun works he will be able to bust some stuff for yas.

his number is 1-541-741-4118 ask for joe hes the 1 that made my 2 bore elephant rifle