Hey gazors,
maybe you can give me a hand concerning an old english calibre i�m interested in.
What can be said about the .450 3 1/4 cartridge?
I have taken a look into my books but haven�t found something about this cartridge at all, maybe because i don�t have "the old (or right) literature" up to now .

Is this calibre suitable for big game hunting in Africa or more something for plains game?
Further questions of interest :
What energy level has the cartridge?
- are brasses available today?
- who is manufacturing bullets ?
- is there any fabric ammo available?
- reloading datas available?
- is it tricky to reload...?
- do somebody have this calibre and have "live"experiences with this calibre on game?
- how is the "ballistic curve" of this calibre
- could this calibre be used today or is it more something like " a sentimental" calibre?

As u see i realy don�t know anything about this cartridge and hope that i here can get som enice info�s.

Thx�s to all responders

konstantin

Konst, is this the 450 NE? If so, go on the Huntington's site. They have exotic brass. The 450 uses 458 bullets and you can order the proper bullets for doubles through them or through Woodleighs. I don't have my reference materials here so I can't quote a load.

OOPS! I forgot to ask the most important question. Is it a black powder cartridge? Is it a thin rimmed and straight tapered cartridge or is it a thin rimmed bottle necked one? Is it for a single shot or a set of doubles. Look on your gun and read the cartridge designation and all the proof marks that is stamped on the side of the barrel/barrels. The British Empire made so many cartridges that without having all the pertinent information available, it is almost impossible to know exactly what cartridge that you have. One can make an occasional educational guess.

Konstantin,

The .450NE's (.450NE 3 1/4 and 450NE #2) are written up with load data in the A-square "Any Shot You Want" reloading manual. I haven't used one, but Craig Boddington, Terry Wieland, and Finn Aagard all seem to write that it's still a good dangerous game stopper. Brass and loaded ammo are available from A square and some German makers, I believe. Dies can be ordered from Huntingtons. They're well-liked by some (like George Caswell of Champlin Arms) because they are low-pressure and can use any of the fairly available .458 bullets. Steve

konstantin,



The following assumes you're talking about the .450 3 1/4" cartridge (and not the .500/.450 NE or .450 No.2 NE ). Be aware that there are basically three loading levels of this cartridge. I may not have the exact terminology correct but here's the list.



.450 3 1/4" Express

Black Powder Express - the original black powder loading



.450 3 1/4" Nitro for Black Powder

Nitro loading for black powder rifles. Lower pressures than full nitro load.



.450 3 1/4" Nitro Express

This is the full power nitro load; 480 gr bullet at about 2150 fps.



Here's a good article on the .450 Nitro Express

http://www.african-hunter.com/450_nitro_express.htm



Also, have a look at Kynoch's web site:

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/









For reference, the other two .450 Nitros:







-Bob F.

Hey AR Members,
thanks for the first...although i hope that more Members will bring light in the dark

@ Bob: If i read the article right, the 450 3 1/4 could be compared to the (nowadays more popular).470 NE cartridge.

Is the 450 3 1/4 the same as 450 NE ?


At this point i can�t say more about the cartridge / calibre or something about the stamps on the system.
I saw a nice double and the seller says in his "advertise" that it is the 450 3 1/4.
The gun was in a auction and had not been sold..... Hope the Seller will reply onto my mail and give me more infos about the gun and the cartridge.
As soon as i do have more infos to the gun i will get back and maybe can provide u with some pics.
By the way it�s a belgique double, pre war manufactured ( so maybe Nitro Express cartridge)..looks okay.
Would you mind if the inside of the barrel do have some light spots from oxidation??
Is it possible to polish the inside of the barrel, so the inside looks like new?
Or does it play no role how the inside barrel looks as long as the precission is okay??

cheers for now

Konst#1

Konst, with that further bit of info, then it would be safe to assume that it might the 450 NE. No, a bit of pitting inside of the barrels won't hurt accuracy. It just looks bad. This comes from not cleaning the gun completely and the moisture is attracted to burnt powder residue, thereby causing rust or pitting in this case.

Konst

It is probably either the Nitro for BP loading or the full Nitro loading. Look at the barrel flats and see what the proof marks say. They will tell you the loading and bullet weight.

The 350 bullet is the Nitro for Black and can usually be seen with a lower BP type of sight. the Full Nitro load is a 480 grain bullet at 2150 and is the ballistic equivalent of the 470, 465, 450#2, 458 Winchester Magnum etc.

I prefer it over my 450#2 because of the slimmer and lighter handling qualities most have. The pressure is a bit higher than the #2 but the same as the others.

If the price is right give a go. You'll be happy with the performance.

As far as i get contact to the seller i will get back here.

by the way, what would u think an A. Francotte double in that calibre would approx. cost?
I can�t say which model...just have sawn it on this pic

But maybe you know which model ist could be...by just looking at the pic.

Because i�m not used to this type of guns (i think every model has it goods and bads ), i think i will look for a gunsmith who realy know much about this type of gun and maybe especialy Francotte�s doubles..and let him take a deeper look on the gun as long as i can arrange it with the seller.
How much would you spend for such a gun??

Cheers
Konstantin

I shoot a 45/120 3.25" Sharps in a Ruger with smokeless loads. I should imaging that if your rifle was nitro proofed that data would be interchangeable.

Herr konst#1

You can get fine German made quality brass from Dieter Hornerber, no need to buy German made cases from USA

I don't know anything about this Francotte double. Is there any engraving on the action? Contact Harald Wolf, he might be able to help you with the question regarding the Francotte.

/ JOHAN

Konstantin

I is really hard for someone that is not in Germany to give you a value. It is also very hard to see the rifle from just that picture. It appears to be a boxlock with a Euro Scope is that right?

IF it was in the US I would guess at $10 -15,000. What are they asking for it?

Hey mickes, you see right, it has a 3-9*36 ZEISS scope mounted.
The price is about 4000US and nobody gave a bid on the gun.
At the moment i try to get a contct to the seller and get some infos about the gone.
The only downside is that the barrel do has some "light" rust pimples / marks in it.

cheers
Konstantin

Konstantin

Buy it. Send it to one of the makers in over their to get cleaned up and consider yourself very lucky.