In this caliber is this a reasonable approach? Or are the new superpenetrating flat or cupped tip bullets the course to take?
The 470 MBOGO test data bank is a wealth of information, albeit comparison data, but maybe more useful in that form, to compare penetration, recoil, muzzle jump. etc. of the big bores. Wanted to get opinion of some shooters more knowledgeable that I to make sure this is the approach to take.

My Doctor says,"Sure, keep shooting those big bores".

As far as real world hunting goes I believe you will find that the 570 grain solid at 2400 fps will penetrate as deeply into anything as you will ever need.

Do you have any load data you wouldn't mind sharing?

Todd E

[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 05-02-2002).]

Wise words from Rob.
This forum wasn't around in 1996 when I bought my .500 from a man in Southern Kalifornika. He had simply loaded the ammunition to the velocity he thought it should be: 2485fps with 600 grain bullets. This in a rifle that was exactly 11 pounds, 4 ounces on a baby scale. I didn't have anyone to tell me to start low or beware.

First time I fired it it was a religious experience.

Alphins book came out awhile later and I calc'ed the recoil to be 26.46fps recoil velocity and 122.47ft/lbs of energy.

Took me over a year before I felt comfortable shooting it with full power loads. I had to spend alot of time shooting reduced loads and I spent money getting the weight up to 13.5 pounds, loaded as you would hunt.

I now load to around 2325-2350fps and if that won't do the job I don't know what will.

Try out some loads before you go whole hog.

Does your 500 have a brake? My 500 only weighs 10 lbs 12 oz. It is braked and that is how I usually shoot it. I have shot without the brake and honestly I cannot tell the difference as long as I stay under ten shots. After that the shoulder starts to tenderize pretty quick without the brake.

Roger and Rob are correct about recoil. If you are not accustom to getting kicked real hard you are in for a rude awakening. Many who post here believe that a 300 Ultra Mag kicks hard, but compared to a 500 they are literally BB guns. The 416 Weatherby is like shooting a 243 Win compared to a 700 gr slug at 2300 fps. I would definitely recommend that you start out with light loads and work up to get accustomed to the recoil.

Todd E

[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 05-02-2002).]

With brake, sling, ammo, and 2.5X Leupold it weighs about 12.5 pounds and is a delight to shoot.

My loads are the 570 grain GSC FN, 570 grain Barnes XLC, 600 grain Barnes Solid, or 600 grain Barnes original, all of these in the 2400 to 2450 fps range.

I would agree with Todd E's recommendations for penetration.

I need to try mine on buffalo or elephant, but haven't yet.

You can have fun lobbing 50 BMG target bullets out to 1000 yards with about any of the .510 bores also.

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RAB

I am impressed with the Burris, it has never moved and I have put at least 300 rounds under it. You also get to the point where you "don't see it" just the crosshairs. I have the quick release rings so if it somehow went bad I could pop it off.

I intend on taking that spring abortion out and trying the mercury reducer. Another thing is the recoil pad. I know I have read some folks don't think this rubber hardens when it gets cold but I have news for them, it does. I will put on that super-pad 475Mbogo recommends.

When I take this out I shoot some inexpensive Hawk bullets using IMR-7828 for around 1800fps then move up to 2000fps for a few. About 4 shots at 2325-2350 is all that is comfortable when having fun. After that it would be a chore though I do not believe any of us would give a *&^% about recoil if something was coming at us .

I forgot to add; The reason I bought this animal is my wife had mentioned to me she wanted to look around for a black bear for a rug. Ok. Then I go moose hunting up on the Yukon and these two Village Public Safety Officers were in our little party. They had made for a huge open area and chanced upon a gut-pile from a previous hunter. There was a black bear on the pile. The grass was about chest height and this bear kept charging them, they could see the grass waving wildly, the bear growling and chomping like a boar in heat. They had a .30'06 and a .270. It scared them badly. I figured if I was in a similar situation particularly with my wife along I wanted the biggest hammer I could handle, which is what I have now. A .585 Nyati would be cool for bragging rights and I wouldn't let it gather dust but with the .500 I cannot justify going bigger....yet.

[This message has been edited by Roger Rothschild (edited 05-02-2002).]

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RAB

Why the 500, well for fun of course and I wanted to see if this could be my upper limit in a manageable DGR, which I feel it will be. Now, I am thinking ahead and would like to use this rifle in Africa eventually if I can master it, thus all the penetration
questions.

Todd E.--having a 500 AHR built, 12 lbs, removable brake, 25 inch bbl. Will get dies and will reload, but for now have ordered some 535 and 570 grain bullets for the shakedown, so no data yet.
DaggaRon--appreciate info on 600 grain .510 solids, didn't know if they were available.

From the data and comparison I can find, to make this a reliable stopper and at least a 150 yd rifle, the 500 AHR needs a diet of 570 to 600 grains at 2350 to 2400 fps. Section density and penetration need improvement IMO. However, the use of 700 grain bullets over 600 grain, if they will fit the AHR case at 2400 fps, will really increase the recoil energy--about 30% and thus would probably not be viable for hunting with me on the recoil end.

May have to creep up on this recoil issue but wouldn't feel that 570 grain at 2400 fps will give me a "religious experience" at least I hope not.

Appreciate all replies! pmm

.458 500 gr 2400 fps Pene I 132
.500 535 gr 2400 fps Pene I 98

The last bullet could have been a 500 J or 500 AHR loaded to 2400 fps, but did not have complete penetration in ele head shot. Also, a discussion about superpenetrator bullets without a lot of documentation.

Doesn't this somewhat support my concern about using this bullet for DG, that is at the lower pentration? Better to use 575-600 gr bullets or 500 A2?
Or if you can't tolerate the recoil at these levels-maybe back down to high pentration clibers like 450 Ackley,Dak,Rigby.
Penetration or knock-out forces or both? Almost sound like our Swedish friend.
Cheers, pmm

I have loaded my 500 AHR to 2600 fps with 570 grain Woodleigh solids. This load will blast through two small block Chevy V8 engine blocks. I advise you to take Norberts penetration data with a grain of salt. You do not need to have an exit wound for drain out on a head shot. If you missed the brain it really doesn't matter if you gave that ele another set of "ear holes". You had better get a second round off posthaste into the brain! A 500 will do that NO PROBLEM!

The 458 Lott is no were near as good a stopper as a 500 or bigger. In my experience there is little effective difference between the Lott and Win Mag.

That 500 AHR will provide you with all the WHUMP you can handle I assure you. The fastest load I have shot in my 500 AHR was 2692 fps with 570 grain Woodleigh soft points. This load is not practical from a hunting stand point in my opinion. The fact remains that a 500 AHR is a larger case and can push bullets faster than a 500 A-Square.

If you are accustom to shooting a full house 460 Weatherby (particularly if the rifle is a Weatherby) I really doubt if you will have any problems with the 500's 570 grains at 2400 fps. The recoil should be about the same (close enough not to notice anyway).

Todd E

Apparently 570-600 grain bullets in the 500 AHR are a reasonable DG load at 2400 fps. I realize that the testing and calculation for penetration is sort of search for the "grail". But it appears that on a relative basis that 470 Mbogo's results merit some study IMHO. Seem to be practical and well done. A friend and I attempted to get pentration results for a .458 Win Mag and .416 Rem Mag for solids and softs in wet newpaper in a rectangular box six feet long. What an abortion--ever see over a ton of wet newspaper??

Have a shooters weekend! pmm