Sorry if this is long (may seem like some kind of a manifesto...)

But I've been a member of the AR forum for several years (reason I came here: got my first loads for my 300 here.), I love shooting, but I became captivated by big bores.

As a neophyte, I feel the need to weigh in on the subject of big bores:

By the age of 21, I was captivated by big bores.

I think it takes more concentration to hit well with a big bore than it takes to piss in a shot glass drunk.

I'll admit I developed a flinch moving from a 300 mag. to a 416 Rigby No.1.

I went from 69 gr. in the 300 mag. to 105-106 gr. of H4831 off in the rigby from the bench right off the bat.

Concerning recoil: In big bores there are freight trains and there are airplanes...

and it all has to do with the kicker pad and stock design.

A fellow AR member had an A-Square 577 T-Rex with a leupold scout set-up a couple years back. Shot quite a few rounds at 2,400 fps. standing and it was fun compared to the No. 1 with the lacrosse ball pad on the 416 Rigby.

verdict? the pad was better. Point being: bare knuckle vs. gloves.


Bear in mind, I was at 12'oclock with the 577 (airplane), (I'm 5'7, 140 lbs. wet.)whereas the No.1 went straight back (control factor), but like an older brother punching you with all his might after you pulled the trigger.

I guess I'm saying I was less scared to the T-Rex than a shoddy-padded 416.

BUT: I didn't own the 577. I lived with the rigby and its horrible pad. I lived with it, benched it for 15 rounds to a box benched a session, and I learned what it takes to shoot these things. I never replaced the pad, but I tried to make it work, made myself try to overcome the flinch.

It's not the way you want to learn to shoot these, babtism by fire in my case, but I was intrigued by the challenge...

But it makes you respect the mental discipline it takes to learn to shoot these rifles adequately.

Can't wait till someday I can actually afford to own one of these again (built a 600 OK, but never had the chance to shoot it... wish I would have... came so close, had everything but a larger press to load for it...

Sorry this is soo long, but there's discussions about the 585 and 600 on here and I can't see why anybody would go with the 585 when there's the 600 OK Rob designed.

BUT STILL...


Think about it...
The anatomy of an elephant hasn't changed since God created them, so why does the anatomy of a rifle concerning ballistics continue to change when the same old mauser action is always used?

I hate to reduce the world, but what's wrong with reduction?

PS: I love reading you guys arguing between calibers . We could very well get a ransom rest, clones of the same elephant, set them up frontal at 25 yds. and shoot them with Bell's 7X57 to the 700 Nitro and people would still argue the results charging/stopping power vs. precision placement despite dropping in the same place.

By all means, carry on, but think about it, I'd appreciate your thoughts keeping in mind I love shooting big bores, just wish I could afford one again...

-mark


PPS: Here's a link to a Jeffery 404 J. on gunbroker. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7985106
It's at $1,400 or so,

If I had the means to afford, I'd pay up to $3,000 for it because I love nostaligia and one could argue more people today give more of a damn about rifle performance than they did then, but there's something about it you can't replicate today... history of days of yore, before corporations and mass production, I suppose...

and patina, character... you could buy Marilyn Monroe's white dress, but give it to your girlfriend or wife to wear and it ain't the same. Such is with rifles like this from times long ago. We can't carry it and do it justice.

If you bought that Jeffery, and I love old Jeffery Rifles, you have to have the stock repaired, where it is cracked through the wrist.

That's not a insurmountable problem.

Most importantly is the condition of the bore. You can do a lot of "restoration" on the rifle, including replacing the barrel, although I'm sure you rather keep the metal "original".

After the time and money you spend on the purchase this rifle and her "reconditoning", you could have been already shooting a "New" CZ in 404 Jeffery.


Just my opine.

That Jeffery is my idea of a perfect hunting rifle.

Perfect chambering, enough to comfortably take any animal but easy enough to shoot.

Perfect action with best safety, bolt handle, and trigger.

Perfect stock, note the forearm, wrist, comb, LOP, drop, checkering pattern, and lack of plateau around the floorplate. OK, the buttplate is a bit severe but there is now way I would have a squishy recoil pad on a rifle, not condusive to snap shooting.

Good sights, the barrel is not too short and I bet the rifle is balanced and points well.

Straying from that ideal is going backwards IMO.

I don't think I'm nostalgic at all. I like performance in the field.

Nice collector piece. But you can pick up a used whitworth express for less than half the price and not worry about banging it around in the woods. There are alot of good used affordable rifles out there, just takes a little time to find them. R.

You were so close. Have AHR build you another .600Ok.-Rob

We could line up the elephant clones, and shoot them with the 7x57. But we can't clone Bell. And he, was the only man on earth who could EVER do what HE did with a 7x57. Unless we have a man around now who can shoot birds on the wing for breakfast with the 7x57, like he did, then we would be at a loss, and thats why we stick with the big-bores. To give us insurance when we really need it.
That said, I myself, see no need in 700 nitro's. I find a happy medium is the .450 bores, or the .500's if needed. And the .404 you mention is great too, although somewhat light for ele, in my opinion only, it has worked for decades like you say. I too, find a warmth in the older rifles with the history, and this warmth cannot be matched by a brand new CZ. As someone on here once said, there is history in the steel.
p.s.-Rob, I was not downing the big ones like the .600 there, only I was mentioning my preference in the .450's and .500's. I would still like to build me a .600-OK, and I'm about to begin looking into the subject very closely either today or tomorrow. I like the thought of having a big back-up for the .450's. Even if it's just for hogs here in the East Texas river bottoms-hehe. "live the dream" close to home, as it were.

quote:

Originally posted by 300H&H:
By all means, carry on, but think about it, I'd appreciate your thoughts keeping in mind I love shooting big bores, just wish I could afford one again...
mark

Thanks for the link to the Jeffery. In its self it doesn't look much, just another bolt action. But the Brand, the calibre, the usage marks, lift it above any "new" rifle.

One day I read an article in a local gunmag about the Zim PH test, and suddenly I realised I had to have a big bore. Not the slightest use for one, so I wasn't about to waste much money. One possibility was a new CZ, but don't like "new" guns much, no character.

I was dreading driving all over the country looking at used stuff, asked a local dealer in jest why he didn't have a .458 second hand for me. Few days later he rang up, one was advertised at his gun club. It was only 35 minutes away. At first glance it wasn't much to look at, but at least it was here and now.

Only a '76 PF Win. Super Grade in .458WM, but a closer look showed some figure in the wood, had a scope and no safari sights but I've since fixed that. And marks. It had usage marks all over. Only little ones sure, but each one was like a secret story. Plenty of rubbing put some life back into the stock, shoots great, kicks me just enough when standing as if to say to me, " Hang on to me fella, your in the big league now."