No chest pounding here, just simple FACTS. Muzzle Brakes flat work and All of You will shoot faster and better with one. period! Don't like them, well that's your call, but Facts are Facts. I've built, installed and use them all the time and it's one of the main reasons, next to a lot of trigger time, why I shoot very well.
Oh yes, I actually hunt with my Big Bores and have the trophies to prove it. They All have muzzle brakes on them! Better yet come to Vegas and shoot some with and without the brake! I always enjoy watching others shoot!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
No chest pounding here, just simple FACTS. Muzzle Brakes flat work and All of You will shoot faster and better with one. period! Don't like them, well that's your call, but Facts are Facts. I've built, installed and use them all the time and it's one of the main reasons, next to a lot of trigger time, why I shoot very well.
Oh yes, I actually hunt with my Big Bores and have the trophies to prove it. They All have muzzle brakes on them! Better yet come to Vegas and shoot some with and without the brake! I always enjoy watching others shoot!-Rob

Well thanks for straightening out my sorry ass!

Good Bye,,,

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

If one learns to correctly hold and shoot big rifles the recoil in the field should not bother them. And lightly bruised shoulders quickly heal while the hearing damage done to everyone standing close is cumulative and lasts forever.

I disagree. Most shooters will shoot more accurately with a muzzle brake as it reduces recoil and muzzle flip, allowing for another benefit which is faster followup shots.

Permanent hearing damage starts at 160 decibels, which all hunting rifles without a muzzle brake exceed, so if you are not wearing hearing protection when guiding a hunter with no muzzle brake then you must have hearing damage already.

since you need ear pro for every rifle then why would it matter if your hunter has a muuzle brake since your ear pro must be in place anyway?

Is it really to heavy in your shirt pocket to carry one pair of ear plugs ? Or is it that it takes up too much space ?

If you are sitting behind and to the right as you should be and not in line next to the muzzle, that too reduces felt muzzle blast.

Bottomline is any device that increase accuracy should be viewed as what is most important not I don't want to wear ear pro and your muzzle brake bothers me for the 1-2 shots you will be taking.

If a Guide told me he would not Guide me due to the muzzle brake on my rifle, I would say something is wrong and just go to that Guide's closest competitor who will be more than happy to take the money that I throw at him.

quote:

If a Guide told me he would not Guide me due to the muzzle brake on my rifle, I would say something is wrong and just go to that Guide's closest competitor who will be more than happy to take the money that I throw at him.

Spoken like true inexperience and disdain for other people.
If you've ever had your ears rung by a muzzle brake in the field those words would not come out of your mouth.

You sound like a hunter who does his hunting in video games. I already have more entries in the Boone and Crockett and Safari Club books than you will in a lifetime.

Yes, I do have hearing damage. I also keep one pair of ear plugs on my buttstock and another in my pocket. Two is one and well you have a lot to learn...

quote:

You sound like a hunter who does his hunting in video games. I already have more entries in the Boone and Crockett and Safari Club books than you will in a lifetime

How would you know? You don't know me or a thing about me.
Your arrogance and disdain for others comes through loud and clear.

Cold Zero,,,, ear plugs?? snap out of it,, we listen for the pater or bear feeding in the streams,,, very close usually,,

guide sitting behind you??? mostly we are shoulder to shoulder shooting down dark alley's in the alders,,,

accuracy?? most of our brown bears are from close to very close,, think a pie-plate @ 50yds!!

I don't judge a hunter by his rifle,, but there are exceptions,,you can spot a hunter who is afraid of recoil the minute they uncase their rifle and head to the range for sight-in,, if you can call it that.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
[QUOTE]

Spoken like true inexperience and disdain for other people.
If you've ever had your ears rung by a muzzle brake in the field those words would not come out of your mouth.

Really ? Not knowing a thing about me did not stop you from calling me inexperienced, solely based on you not sharing my opinion on muzzle brakes or ear plugs.

I have not had my ears rung in the field because I choose to protect whats left of my hearing by using earplugs, which I do not wear all the time but always seem to find the time in put them in before the shooting starts.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Cold Zero,,,, ear plugs?? snap out of it,, we listen for the pater or bear feeding in the streams,,, very close usually,,

guide sitting behind you??? mostly we are shoulder to shoulder shooting down dark alley's in the alders,,,

accuracy?? most of our brown bears are from close to very close,, think a pie-plate @ 50yds!!

I don't judge a hunter by his rifle,, but there are exceptions,,you can spot a hunter who is afraid of recoil the minute they uncase their rifle and head to the range for sight-in,, if you can call it that.

Jim

Jim:

We glass for Sheep and Goats usually at great distances. Many times the shots can go well beyond 200 yes, depending on the ability of the shooter, weather and light conditions, angle to the targetand capability of his rifle/scope combination under those field conditions. Think of a pie plate at 350 yards.

Yes, A guide sitting slightly behind and to the right of the hunter, inline with the scope and bore line enjoys the benefits of redcued muzzle blast and being able to observe the trace of the round as it heads down range from the muzzle as well as the round impacting the target. There must be something said for the technique since Military sniper/spotter teams have been using this technique for decades. You should not mock what you have not tried.

You can also observe a hunter who is sighting in his rifle and see how safely he handles his firearm and his ability with it. Many times someone with above avg. ability is immediately recognized during the zero check and then allowed to take shots or shoot further than most hunters who come through camp.

People with skill, training, experience who know their rifle scope combo and the ballistics of their chosen round tend to stand out quite easily.

You need to take the blinders off and open your mind to techiques you have no experience with before you mock them.

There are many models of electronic hearing protectors out there that not only protect but enhance your hearing.

I try and wear them when I am not only practicing but hunting also.

For us guys that grew up when earing protection was rare most of us here they can be a real help.

Maybe we can all agree on this:
Obviously the camp is divided on muzzle brakes, Many of us have made up our minds, never to be changed based on our experiences be they in favor or against muzzle brakes.
I see their benefits, I see their negative side as well.
Sounds like someone should be around a muzzle brake some then decide which side of the fire they stand on in favor or against.
Your decision for or against them has nothing to do with your quantity of days in the field, it is based purely on a preference and whether or not they fit in your hunting style.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
There are many models of electronic hearing protectors out there that not only protect but enhance your hearing.

I try and wear them when I am not only practicing but hunting also.

For us guys that grew up when earing protection was rare most of us here they can be a real help.

I wear the Walker Game Ear, electronic ear plugs. They block the gunshot and I can set then to hear better than normal.
An added benefit is they keep Mosquitos out of my ears!

Mark
I hunt with a brake on my 460 Weatherby and I love it and so did my PH.

I cant speak for everyone but the owner of my shooting range wears no ear protection neither do the range monitors.The owner has owned the shooting range for at least 30yrs and is there everyday. Many times he is right next to us.He has no problem with his hearing what so ever.I cant explain this.Does he have genetically superior hearing?

In my forty years of hunting, I've never used hearing protection, but have always used it at the bench, trap, skeet and sporting clay events. For the last 20 years my hearing has been professionally checked annually, and my hearing is still excellent.

I warn a buddy that has a braked 300Weatherby not to fire that SOB off around me.

I personally would not own a gun with a muzzle brake.

Maybe it's just because I've had my brains rattled by muzzlebreaks about 50 times over the years.

My 458 on this mornings brown bear hunt with my wife. No holes in the barrel and it shoots just fine!

Nice looking capable rifle you have there.
Is that a Butler Creek stock?
I have one of those on a 9.3x62 painted same color with a sanded texture finish.

Snellstrom,, I don't know the make of the stock,, traded a 257 Bob 77 for it and went hunting. The forearm and grip are slathered in wingwalk and painted almond as that's easier on the eyes than black.

It weigh's 9 1/2 lbs and feels comfortable in the field.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Cold Zero,,,, ear plugs?? snap out of it,, we listen for the pater or bear feeding in the streams,,, very close usually,,

guide sitting behind you??? mostly we are shoulder to shoulder shooting down dark alley's in the alders,,,

accuracy?? most of our brown bears are from close to very close,, think a pie-plate @ 50yds!!

I don't judge a hunter by his rifle,, but there are exceptions,,you can spot a hunter who is afraid of recoil the minute they uncase their rifle and head to the range for sight-in,, if you can call it that.

Jim

Beins I can't access my old bucket account I can't show my corn cobbed 458 or 416 . I can my 9.3 . . I shoot these just fine. And I can prolly hear just as well as most 55 year old guys on here that spent their lives doing similar work as I have. I've clapped the $#!+ out of my ears dozens of times shooting my current Spruce King ( 458) . And I can. Still hear.
Friend of mine on PoW has a cob on his Voera 06. And I've watched him take a real quick knee and center punch a wolf right behind the shoulder at a little over 400 yards with it. I've popped the top off the head of lots of deer with 416s+458s both with and without breaks on them.

Why don't u guides just make a cast in stone policy that if a client has a muzzle break.on his rifle he can not hunt with you or your guides.
Don't be telling me I ain't a good enough shot or afraid of my rifle. That's just unmitigated horse poop !!!!

Anyone doesn't like muzzle breaks is fine and right for them. Anyone that likes them that is fine and right for them.

Wether someone can shoot or not has more to do with wether they can shoot ! Not wether they have a break on their rifle.

just to add my 2 cents worth... i'm on the "no muzzle brake" side. however i did use a suppressed 300 Weatherby (house gun) in SA and found the recoil and noise greatly reduced. but i'm not crazy about a "can" on my rifles either.
hey...to each his own!

Well after reading some (but not all) of this dribble, I have decided to design a new Muzzle break that will cause at least a 100db increase to the NOISE over that of an unbraked rifle as well as providing a minimal 15 Ft flame for true entertainment purposes. It will provide NO recoil reduction and NO increase in accuracy as the shooter will be so stunned by the noise they will simply wet their pants! Forget ear plugs, electronic noise reducers etc. They will be rendered useless!
I'm calling it the AR special! Soon to be seen, heard and never forgotten at ranges near you and available to African and Alaskan PH's or guides at a super discount!
Kinda like Rolling Coal outa my diesel on Prius drivers!
Never fails to bring a smile!

What?

Please say it slowly and loudly. Thanks.

(Not a big fan of breaks incase you didn't get that).

They work very well to reduce actual and felt recoil and they are too loud for unprotected ears.

But I only feel or even seem to react to recoil on the range and never while hunting.

(My wife once videoed me firing a 100+ ft.-lbs. recoiling rifle on a one shot Cape buffalo kill. It looked like I was shooting a .22.)

So, I use them on the range and not in the field.

Plain and simple.

Yep If you need them in the field you are using too much gun.

Decibels are not linear, they are logrithmic. An increase of 10 decibels is 10 times as large, and 20 decibels is 100 times. To just double something think around 3.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
If muzzle brakes made rifles, or shooters for that matter, shoot better I guarantee you would see them on every target and bench rest rifle.
And although it may classify me as having "delicate sensibilities", I find individuals who are so sensitive to pain, but more than willing to inflict it upon everyone around, not a person I would choose to guide.
Fortunatley I don't think I know any real hunters that fit that catagory.

If one learns to correctly hold and shoot big rifles the recoil in the field should not bother them. And lightly bruised shoulders quickly heal while the hearing damage done to everyone standing close is cumulative and lasts forever.

The sniper rifle competition crowd uses a lot of muzzle brakes. So do quite a few varminters.

Anything over 84 decibels damages hearing, rifle shots are greater than 84 decibels. Every time you shoot a rifle without hearing protection you are damaging your hearing.

The difference between a brake and no brake is somewhere between 15-40 decibels, and a rifle shot is over 100.

db's are a log function! No shit! Really! Who woulda guessed? Duh! Well if just a 3db increase in the noise of a shot equates to just a meer doubling of the noise strength, then what does a 100db increase equate to? Just testing the math skills of the brethren here. Are we using too big a gun? Now that hurts and I thought you guys put your big boy pants on when you came to this site!