How was the performance, would you take them to hunt plains game. I am seriously considering taking only 1 gun on our plains game hunt this summer - Eland, Mtn Zebra, Kudu, Gemsbok, Blue Wildebeest, Springbok and Blesbok are the animals on the plan at the moment. I was thinking about taking 210 grain bullets.

I've never used anything but 300gr. bullets in my .375s regardless of the game being hunted.

Whose 210gr. bullets are you thinking of using?

George

I think you will be better served by the 260gr Nosler Accubond. Eland are big and tough animals and the zebra, well if the 210gr don't do the job your going to waste a lot of time tracking....they can go a long way when wounded.

I've never used 210s but I have shot some 235gr Tripleshocks in my .375. Absolutely devastating on whitetails , but then again whitetails are a far cry from Eland and Mtn. Zebra. If it were my trip I'd definately stick to a good 270 or 300gr load.

A good friend swears by the 210 Barnes-X in his 375 H&H for elk. Loaded a few, but I found that even tho you could push them 3100-3200 the didn't shoot that well. Really disappointed in them past 250 yards. I am much happier with the Nosler 260 AccuBond (or Partition) for long range in Namibia.

Now that they are going to make a 300 grain AccuBond, I may have found the perfect bullet! Can't wait to try them.

george S Barnes X bullets would be what I would use

Why suffer the recoil of 300gr bullets in a 375 when you can shoot more precisely with a lighter faster bullet. Plains game do not need heavy bullets. What is often required is a bullet that can reach that little bit further - Last day, last light, havn't got your Zebra yet, and there he is at 250m. What are you going to do? With a 200gr bullet, you simply take the shot with little or no thought to trajectory, wind drift or time of flight. Zero at 200 with your 375 and go enjoy the hunting, the bullet is taken care of.

You could take that same 250 yard shot with a 270 or even a 300 grain bullet. The drop would be 4 inches for the 300 and 2.5 for the 210, hardly enough to matter.

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Originally posted by Dogleg:
You could take that same 250 yard shot with a 270 or even a 300 grain bullet. The drop would be 4 inches for the 300 and 2.5 for the 210, hardly enough to matter.

I've taken 300 yd shots with 300 gr Swift A Frames. Very effective. Just cranked in ten clicks on a 1/4 minute scope that was zeroed for a hundred for buff and hit the target. I'd use whatever bullet works best. Try a few lighter ones, but I've had great luck with the 270 and 300 grainers on whitetail, buffalo, and a lot of stuff in between.

I've used 210gr X bullets on elk just because a friend gave me a box. Two witnesses (hunting partners) saw the results on both two unwounded elk (I had an extra cow license) and finishing/stopping shots on elk wounded by others. All four elk dropped instantly.
Still, even after seeing that (and they did shoot well in my rifle), I think I'd go with the 235gr X bullets for African plains game. Next year, I'll try this weight on elk. Couldn't this year since I had to "blood" the .395 Ruger Max!

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hardly enough to matter

The fact is that one is better than the other, even if the perception is that it is a small margin. Consider the other factors as well and not just bullet drop. When hunting animals, any edge you give yourself is often the difference between tracking and skinning. Take two inches less drop, two inches less wind drift and a 23% reduction in time of flight at 250m and that is an edge no matter how you look at it.

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Just cranked in ten clicks on a 1/4 minute scope that was zeroed for a hundred for buff and hit the target.

This is absolutely true - If you have the time to do it, have the equipment for it or even know how to do it. In dealing with hunters for some thirty years now, what you suggest is do-able for less than 5% of people who hunt. That is reality and, much as we want to live in a perfect world, reality must be considered. A mentor once said to me: "The pipe dream of what should be must always be tempered by the reality of what will be."

An edge is available for those who need it to be better hunters and an edge will make a good hunter an excellent hunter. I like having an edge.

my son used them in zim for a PG hunt. Killed everything with 1 shot. (including eland) actually performed much better than i would have thought. most of the stuff were bang-flops.

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The fact is that one is better than the other, even if the perception is that it is a small margin. Consider the other factors as well and not just bullet drop. When hunting animals, any edge you give yourself is often the difference between tracking and skinning. Take two inches less drop, two inches less wind drift and a 23% reduction in time of flight at 250m and that is an edge no matter how you look at it.

The difference is 1 1/2 inches for the 300 grain bullet, even less for a 270 grain. Point- blank is point-blank. By your logic a 30-06 at the same 2700 fps isn't a 250 yard cartridge either?

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Originally posted by Gerard:

quote:

hardly enough to matter

The fact is that one is better than the other, even if the perception is that it is a small margin. Consider the other factors as well and not just bullet drop. When hunting animals, any edge you give yourself is often the difference between tracking and skinning. Take two inches less drop, two inches less wind drift and a 23% reduction in time of flight at 250m and that is an edge no matter how you look at it.

quote:

Just cranked in ten clicks on a 1/4 minute scope that was zeroed for a hundred for buff and hit the target.

This is absolutely true - If you have the time to do it, have the equipment for it or even know how to do it. In dealing with hunters for some thirty years now, what you suggest is do-able for less than 5% of people who hunt. That is reality and, much as we want to live in a perfect world, reality must be considered. A mentor once said to me: "The pipe dream of what should be must always be tempered by the reality of what will be."

An edge is available for those who need it to be better hunters and an edge will make a good hunter an excellent hunter. I like having an edge.

So do I.

I was intimate with my rifle, knew we'd be shooting Nyassa wildebeest at longer ranges, so I did it the day of the first hunt when I saw just how close we could, or couldn't, get. Frisky buggars.

I guess I shoot more than some guys because I'm retired and have entirely too much time on my hands, so I study my equipment and know its, and my, limitations. It ain't rocket science. Well, maybe it is. I have a functional knowledge of exterior ballistics, know my load, and have memorized the tables for each load I shoot.

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By your logic a 30-06 at the same 2700 fps isn't a 250 yard cartridge either?

No, I am saying that it is easier to do with one bullet than the other. If you have practised enough, have a high end scope with a built in range finder, the prescence of mind under the circumstances (no buck fever ever), a solid rest and perfect shooting conditions, almost any caliber with any bullet will take an eland at 250m. It is just easier if you give yourself an edge, wherever and however you can, by using components and calibers that will supply that edge. There is an element of risk with every shot that is taken at game. I like to reduce that risk as much as possible.

I am not critisising any person's choice of component or caliber but the reality is that job number one, hitting the right spot, not two or three inches from the right spot, is easier with some bullets than with others. Why deliberately penalise yourself when you do not have to? It boils down to choices and what you can and cannot control when you have to take the shot. You can control the choice of caliber and components for the shot and you can make the decision to shoot or not to shoot. All else is pretty much not under your control. You do not know what the wind speed and direction will be, what position you will have to shoot from, whether the animal will spook as you break the shot or how far you have to run or walk before the shot is taken. Some calibers and bullets will allow the shoot decision more frequently than others. As always, the choice is yours.

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The difference is 1 1/2 inches for the 300 grain bullet,

It is more than that but bullet placement is more than just trajectory. Combine all the parameters, including drift and time of flight and you have a substantial difference.

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If you have practised enough, have a high end scope with a built in range finder, the prescence of mind under the circumstances (no buck fever ever), a solid rest and perfect shooting conditions, almost any caliber with any bullet will take an eland at 250m

Are you now saying that you need a highend scope, built in rangefinder and a perfect rest to make a 250 yard shot? It isn't that hard to make 200 with a stiffly loaded muzzleloader.(Not that I plan on dragging one to Africa)
I can think of reasons to use light, strongly constructed bullets but shooting 250 yards isn't one of them.

I have loaded 200 gr Sierra in 375 H&H and 375 Ruger. My experience was the same in both calibers - it is very hard to get them to be consistent. I have tried a variety of powders and all of the primers and the best groups come in at around 1.5" at 100 yards.

I have also loaded 220 Hornady in the same calibers. They are very accurate and very consistent. I have killed several deer with both rifles, the longest range being 250 +/- yards. All of the shots were bang, flop.

However, if I were going to spend the money on an African trip (and I will when I get the son out of college), I would spend lots of time working up loads, and then practice, practice, practice. I would take a light load and also a 260 or 270 or 300 for the big critters. The last thing you want is to end up tracking, or worse still, to end up paying for a wounded animal that you don't find.

Love that 375 Ruger!

My tested trajectory is quite a bit off the computed trajectory when using TSX's. That make me think they slow up fast. I dont think the practical difference will be big between 210 TSX and 260 Accubonds within reasonable ranges, as long as you know your (tested) trajectory and you sight in at the right distance.

The big difference will be in what energy the bullet carries downrange.

quote:

Originally posted by Phoenixdawg:
How was the performance, would you take them to hunt plains game. I am seriously considering taking only 1 gun on our plains game hunt this summer - Eland, Mtn Zebra, Kudu, Gemsbok, Blue Wildebeest, Springbok and Blesbok are the animals on the plan at the moment. I was thinking about taking 210 grain bullets.

Yes, I used the 210-grain barnes X years back. It was launched at 3100 FPS, and made a good short-range deer load. Sheds velocity too fast. I would not use anything lighter than the Sierra 250, better yet, use the 260 Accubond.

I would NOT recommend the 210 for anything built tougher than whitetails!

quote:

Are you now saying that you need a highend scope, built in rangefinder and a perfect rest to make a 250 yard shot?

No, I said that is what you would need with some caliber/bullet combinations (22-250 comes to mind) if you wanted to take an Eland at 250. With some caliber/bullet combinations, such as a .375 H&H loaded with 200gr HVs, it is easy. With your muzzleloader it will be considerably more difficult. The one would not require a range finder and the other would.

Seeing that you give or take 50 or so on distance and double the drop and wind drift at 250 to 300 does not matter to you, we are talking at different levels. Your level of precision does not interest me so, as I said previously: "Some calibers and bullets will allow the shoot decision more frequently than others. As always, the choice is yours."

Gerard,
I live and hunt in an area where 250 yards is considered a very short shot, and my level of precision is quite up to task, thank you. Watching you try to put words in my mouth is amusing, please continue.

quote:

By your logic a 30-06 at the same 2700 fps isn't a 250 yard cartridge either?

quote:

Are you now saying that you need a highend scope, built in rangefinder and a perfect rest to make a 250 yard shot?

quote:

Watching you try to put words in my mouth is amusing, please continue.

You are not serious, right?

[
You are not serious, right? [/QUOTE]

Serious as in meaning what I said, or serious as in watching what mental gymnastics you will go through to defend a bad example? Yes to the first, and maybe to the second.

Back to the beginning, before such distractions as talking about using a 22/250 for eland, you stated that using a 210 grain bullet over a more standard weght was the difference between taking a 250 yard shot at a zebra or not. Since you mention a 200 yard zero, I assume you have no problem with that distance?
Given velocities of 3100, 2700 and 2500 for the 210, 270, and 300 grain bullets the rounded 250 yard drops are 2.5, 3.4, and 4 inches. The difference between a 210 and a 270 is an enormous .9". Considering that that is slighty less than 2 1/2 calibers, yes I do think that is insignificant, and no it wouldn't make the difference between taking or leaving the shot. Do you really think differently? Who is being serious now? If that .9" bothers you, then the 1.4 " that your 210 impacts high at 100 must drive you crazy.

edit to add. My 3 zebras were shot at 250 yards (trotting) shot from a sitting position, standing with the sticks at 100 and offhand about the same distance. One was with 270s, two were with 300s. One was in your country, two in Zimbabwe.

quote:

you stated that using a 210 grain bullet over a more standard weght was the difference between taking a 250 yard shot at a zebra or not.

No, I said in my first post: "What is often required is a bullet that can reach that little bit further" I also said in the next sentence: "With a 200gr bullet........" Not a 210gr bullet. In my second post I said: "The fact is that one is better than the other, even if the perception is that it is a small margin. Consider the other factors as well and not just bullet drop." My third post started: "No, I am saying that it is easier to do with one bullet than the other." My fourth post contained; "Some calibers and bullets will allow the shoot decision more frequently than others. As always, the choice is yours." So heed your own advice about laying words in another's mouth. You continue to imply that I said the shot cannot be taken with a 270gr bullet when I have said all along, that it is easier to take the shot with a 200gr HV than with a 270gr bullet.

You cannot deny that a 200gr HV compared to a 270gr bullet has:
Flatter trajectory.
Less wind drift.
Shorter time of flight.
Less recoil.
Less likely to turn inside the target.

That being so, it is easier to hit the spot at any distance and, as distance increases and, remaining within what is practical on plains game with a 375, it becomes easier still. Considering that, as well as the extra margin of safety in straight line penetration, how is this a bad example? I have done the comparison with my 375H&H Steyr on a lot more animals than three zebra and the collective experience of a number of PHs run into several hundred animals at this stage. Here is just one of them.

Your drop/drift/tof calculations remain wrong. If you are using a BC number of .506 for your 270 calculation, it is the wrong number by far. Use the correct .326 (G1) and look at the numbers again. Our 200gr HV is .275 and we run it at 3200fps.

quote:

If that .9" bothers you, then the 1.4 " that your 210 impacts high at 100 must drive you crazy.

I would rather have the height over line of sight of the light bullet than the heavier bullet which is an inch more.

Zero a 270gr bullet and a 200gr bullet to the same height over line of sight and the 200gr bullet is 6" higher at 300, wind drift is similar and time of flight is 16% less. That is an advantage regardless of how you try to deny it.

So, for clarity here is what I say: It is easier to take longer shots on plains game with a 200gr HV bullet in a .375, than with heavier bullets. Heavy bullets can be used and are used often with good results but lighter bullets have an edge.

You have some experience with African game and I respect that your point of view is formed by that experience. I urge you to be a little more open minded and consider that there are perhaps people like us, who make it their business to improve your rate of success. We do not suck our thumbs, design a bullet tonight, make it tomorrow and say we have a product that should (maybe) work. We design, test and then go out and shoot a bunch of animals. Some times we have slunk back and started again and sometimes it works out. Bottom line is, the bullet is released for use when we know what it will do and what it is good for - when it has worked out. We do not expect our customers to do our R&D and discontinue a line when it has not worked out.

We do a lot of shooting and we are amongst the animals frequently. Sometimes for observation, sometimes for testing and sometimes to relax.

Gina, my daughter and owner of the business, took these pictures this past weekend. Enjoy.

I've shot those 210gr bullets in my 338 Ultra. But not in my 375 H&H. Those 210 gr bullets are made by Nosler in a partition. In my 375 I shoot 270, 300 & 250gr bullets.