Can a 404 Jeffrey be built on a Remington 700
action?

Sambubba

I don't see why not. The UltraMag line of cartridges is based on the .404 case, is it not?

George

404 on a 700???

Now I know where the bubba came from

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

My work with building 300 and 338 Ultras on the M700 say no. (The Ultra is derived from 404 brass) The Ultra magazine box is just barely wide enough for feeding, needs to be wider and longer and a few other things. Even the aftermarket boxes are not wide enough in my opinion, I have used them. Plus most 404 Jeffery brass has a larger rim than the Ultra, this raises bolt face problems. I feel a 404 has to be ultimately reliable in feeding, this, for me, rules out the M700. I do a lot of work with the M700's, but it is just not a wise choice for a DGR in 404. It can be done, but I do not like it.

Ray,

Stop laughing at us poor souls who cannot afford anything more expensive than a 700!

I have built several wildcats based on the 404 on Remington 700 actions - including one I have used my self in South Africa last year.

They work great.

PS. I buy cheap guns and work on them myself, so that I can afford to go on safari every year

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

After reading this thread and the "painting
stocks" one, I'm begining to think somebody is trying to see Ray off!!:-)

Go figure, how come Saeed buys "cheap"?

John,

It is not a matter of buying "cheap", I just hate to spend more money on something that is "suppose" to work better!

I think because I have been using Remington 700 for so long, and never encountered any problems with them, and can generally work on them myself.

Lately I have noticed some 700 come out of the factory in a rather "rough" state, and one definitely have to do some work on them. But, the action is absolutely sound. I just wish Remington would get rid of that silly little extractor.

One of teh first things I do is replace it with a SAKO type extractor.

On the subject of being cheap - I have been called a "slave driver" on many occasions. None of the boys who work here get any pay. Mind you, if they actually DID any work, I would not mind paying them!

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Did you guys know in Dubai they leave the bannas off the banna splits and they boil there tabacco in funny pipes and use Rem 700 actions to build 404's

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray my friend,

I know you are a man of the world, and must have seen quite a few "unusual" things in your life.

But I can guarantee you, your hair will stand on end if you hear some of the things that go on here

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

I can take everything except leaving the bananas off the splits!!!!

In reality, nothing wrong with the M700 for most use, I use a lot of the actions in customers rifles. I just prefer Mausers or Mauser derrivatives for hunting rifles, call me an old hard headed nostalgia type. And I am beginning to like the CZ550, lot of bang for the buck in this action.

Ray,what the hell kind of response was that to a legitimate question? Left handed shooters do not have a whole lot to choose from when we build rifles.

Sambubba

Sam,
He was just ribbing you, hence the wink.

Are you building this for fun, or do you intend to go after beasts that fight back? If it is a DGR, John is right; it must feed and function reliably every time (even though you'll have backup, what if HIS gun fails?).

Talk to Saeed about the work he does on his .404-based 700s; they should work for you as well.

Let us know if you proceed with this project and how it turns out. I'm a lefty, too, and have always liked the .404 Jeffery as an all-around African cartridge.

George

SAmbubba,
Saw you were from Texas and had a since of humor, sorry, I suppose I was mistaken.

For the record, theres a lot of options for the left handed shooter.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Easy, Sam, taking ribbing is a part of the life here! Ray's comments often are stewed in candid humor and sometimes take a little "Sorting Out". His experience level is at the top, so I pay attention to what he says.

Now we know your question, a left hand rifle in 404. If the M700 looks like your choice, then have it built with care. Plus, nothing wrong with a 416 Remington, at least if you are not using the anemic loads that Ray mentions in another post!!! I have reamers for several 416's, and the 404 Jeffery, they all are about equal, the poor 'Ol Buff will not be able to tell the difference. Just use good bullets at the proper velocity.

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 06-28-2001).]

Ray, I am a redneck and could possibly on occasion be called a bubba--I just didn't know if it would work. I have a .416 Taylor,but after what you said about taking wildcats to Africa, it made me take pause. A lot of the other available left hand actions get pretty expensive; I may have to get with
Saeed. I do have a lot of respect for your opinions.
Sambubba

Sam, many of have deep Southern Roots, I am from Georgia, can't get much more red neck than that. Read my profile!!!!! And I think Ray hails from Texas a long time ago?

If you have a 416 Taylor, and it works & shoots fine, consider the concept of obtaining brass with no headstamp and a stamp from MAST. I am doing this now with a 416 Howell for a customer, he purchased 404 basic brass with no headstamp and a 416 Howell stamp for me to stamp the cartridges with. Thus the cartridge headstamp will match the engraving on the rifle barrel.

Sam, go to Saeed's link page and find your way to the 416 Taylor webpage. I'm pretty sure one of the guys has a 416 taylor stamp from mast, or they were doing a group order, and you might be able to get some brass.

I don't know what the ammo situation is in Africa, but I don't know that you'd necessarily find 404 ammo if your ammo gets lost in transport.

Ray was just calling it like he saw it, no offense, but I got a chuckle out of his post, and tend to agree with it. Heck, 404's don't really belong in Winchesters either, make it an M98, or make it some other sort of 40 cal.

I just cruised www.owlnet.com/quality, they list 416 Taylor brass. (Quality Cartridge)

SAm and John,
I made a lot of tracks in Texas for the first 50 years of my life, now thats a long time considering I been up here for 18 years. Jeeez

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, I was in San Antone, 1968 till 1972, off and one. Traveled a lot when there, looked at much of Texas. Some neat country there, especially the Hill Country. Bet George Hoffman is having a ball.

Well, Sam, these guys have gone pretty far afield from your original question about a .404 Jeff in a 700 action.

I can't say that I've got the technical expertise to rework a standard 700 magnum action to be perfect with a .404; but I know that Remington's protoype .300 UM's cobbled together with standard actions held only two shells in the magazine and probably required some feed rail work on top of that.

But if you want a left hand 700 in .404, why not buy an Ultamag and rework it. You would have two options for solving the slight difference in rim diameter: Enlarge the bolt face slightly (which should be no problem) or turn down the rim of each individual shell (which would be a pain). With the factory 700 Ultramag action, you would get 3 shells in the magazine.

Another left-hand solution would be to use a left hand Sako. Their magazine box is wider than the 700 to begin with and they have a more reliable extractor.

Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate all of the responses.
Sambubba

If and when Sako deliver their CRF version,
that really does make them a competitor in the DGR stakes...But I bet you lefties will have to wait a while longer than the rest of us normal people:-)

Sam,
Keep in mind that the 404 definately needs a drop box magazine that holds 4 down and 1 up. thats a good idea in any african rifle.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

how much more powerful would the 404 be than the 375 ultra or the 416 rem. which i believe are avaliable lefthanded.

Sam,

I, too, am a Texan, but I deserted and moved to Ohio five years ago. I am trapped for another five years, then I am heading back West, probably somewhere in the southern Rockies.

I have a left-handed brother, so I know your pain. I would try to find a left-hand Winchester in your shoes. The Browning A-Bolts are not DGRs.

As far as 416 Taylor goes. You could mark the barrel .416/.458 (or whatever parent case you use.) I have heard that the inspectors are happy if one number matches.

The Rems are definitely getting rougher from the factory. I have never had a Rem extractor fail or malfunction in any way.

Don

Dear Sambubba,

Converting a 700 Rem to .404 Jeffrey is one of the no-brainers of gunsmithing. You MUST start with a 700 in .375 H&H or .300 H&H. Then you screw on a 404 barrel, headspace and maybe tweak the feeding a bit and you are through. Ditto for an M70 in .375 H&H. Since these actions are specially modified at the factory for the .375 H&H, it is silly, pointless and expensive to try and modify an action set up for a standard length cartridge. Good luck and don't let the BS get you down!

I assure you there is more to it than a tweak....the rails will need to be openned up a good deal and the ramp will require some modification to take the round nose bullets in either the Win or the Rem...but it is a very feasible conversion...You will loose a round in capacity on both and that will give you two down and one in the barrel, so the addition of a drop box is suggested and that requires a new stock....

I have built a number of 404 on the Mauser and M-70 pre 64 Win action..100% feeding and extraction is imparative in a DGR....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com