I hunted in Alaska only once for black bear. We were dropped off from a bush plane for 8 days. We had no radio or sat phone, really on our own. I guide buddy helped setup the trip but did not hunt with us. His recommendation was no round in the chamber so that is what we did.

My first trip to Africa was in the Selous. I asked the PH if he wanted me to chamber a round. His response was unless I was planning to beat a buffalo to death with the stock it would be a good idea so I loaded the rifle.

Typically I carry a firearm with a round loaded in the chamber.

Loaded or empty I treat/handle any firearm the same.

quote:

His recommendation was no round in the chamber so that is what we did.

Why...it just makes no sense to me. I would like to understand the reasoning. Also...it seems like AK people are more likely to run around emty chambered...why???

the ph I was with in africa told me first thing on the first day. load your gun and put the safety on as soon as we get out of the truck. thats what we did for the entire hunt. thats what I have always done here at home to.

ledvm,

We had no way out until our scheduled pickup and he felt the odds were greater for an accidental discharge than being mauled by a bear.

The pilot made us strap our rifle in a boot under the wing. He told us that after a passenger shot a a hole in the roof of his plane he felt that was a good idea.

I do prefer to chamber a round and always do so in Africa.

Well I guess I will put another dime in here.

This subject upsets me. Grown men being treated worse than children. And some of these grown men NEEDING to be treated that way.

Now I know there are plenty of guys hunting that never pick the gun up all year except hunting season; some even have the gunshop owner "Zero" their rifles for them. I can see a guide having to "baby" these types for their own preservation. I do not think an experienced hunter should be treated that way.

This reminds me of another situation. Empty Chamber Indicators at the National Matches. It is a darn shame that grown men, experienced competitive shooters can't be trusted with safe gun handling. Let me be clear, I am not criticizing the match staff, but the competitors themselves who brought it on.

I am a longtime NRA Instructor and Shooting Coach and trained very young kids Safe Gun Handling and trusted them to follow the rules; actually made them follow the rules, conditioned them to follow the rules and then trusting them to follow those rules.

I believe in hunting with a loaded gun. I also believe that you should know your hunting partners. If in trail, the trailing members point their loaded rifle sideways and downward in a SAFE direction. That is the first rule of Safe Gun Handling, "Always Point the Muzzle in a Safe Direction".

The worst gun handling I ever saw was hunting with Army buddies on Active Duty. One guy, an E-6, Abn Ranger, carried his 12 ga shotgun buy the trigger. It was self correcting though because one day the gun went off and his arm went flying. Luckily no one was hurt. I couldn't beleive it when he explained that he always carried his loaded gun by the trigger, the gun literally dangling from his finger by the trigger.

In summary, I think it is important to know your hunting partner or client, and what their experience level is.

I can understand a guides concerns. Especially when they do not know you from atom. Over the years I have know quite a few folks that have gone on expensive challenging hunts for their "FIRST" hunt. Probably with a borrowed gun! I am sure guides have endured these exercises and are cautious until they get to know you.Warranted!

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Why don't you ask this same question to all the big game guides in the lower 48 and Alaska.

quote:

We had no way out until our scheduled pickup and he felt the odds were greater for an accidental discharge than being mauled by a bear.

No disrespect intended sir...but...that is the most rediculous thing I have heard. And not meaning a bear mauling is likely.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We had no way out until our scheduled pickup and he felt the odds were greater for an accidental discharge than being mauled by a bear.

No disrespect intended sir...but...that is the most rediculous thing I have heard. And not meaning a bear mauling is likely.

Lane,

I knew I should have not posted on this thread. If that I the most rediculous (sic) thing you have ever heard you must stay off the ARPF. This guide was not with us, it was just a buddy from LA and me who were hunting. We chose to take the advice of a person who made his living in the wild carrying a gun.

Probably every other hunt I have made the round is chambered.

It must be something about Alaska and loaded rifles????

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike70560:
ledvm,

We had no way out until our scheduled pickup and he felt the odds were greater for an accidental discharge than being mauled by a bear.


Makes good sense to me. I never met a person yet who was mauled by a bear, any type of bear. But have witnessed more than a few accidental firings by other people while hunting in Pa, Wa, Texas or Alaska.

Guides in the 50 states have the policy for a reason. They seen to many accidental discharges. And I would also bet that the vast majority of hunter education courses tell you not to carry hot as well.

The one truly amazing thing about this topic is the dislike some of you guys have for people who have a different opinion than your own.
If you want to carry hot, go for it. But dont insult others if they choose not to. And some of these childish comments slide into the conversation, are just that, childish. I'll continue to hunt without a round in the pipe and treat any weapon in my hands as if it is loaded.

quote:

Also...it seems like AK people are more likely to run around emty chambered...why???

Well, not living in AK, but growing up on a ranch in SD an WY, let me see if I can explain it to you. In the small towns and rural area's of these states, guns are not something you take hunting once a year when you pull them out of the safe. They are an integrated part of your daily life. Every pickup has a gunrack in it. The gunrack holds a whip, a rope, and a rifle. It doesn't have to be hunting seasons for to be handling a rifle every day. You never know when you might need one, rattlesnake, fox, coyote, skunk in the shop, ect, so you always have it. Since you ALWAYS have one, that means you send alot more time handling them around the home, vehicles, horses, cattle, fences, ect.

Remember in this and other threats where every keeps saying, I always have a round in the chamber EXCEPT. Well, we spend so much time handling a firearm around all those exceptions, they would spend alot of time chambering and unchambering rounds.

Now for some of our posters, when deer season opens, it means you go get your rifle out of the safe, where it's been since last year, if you can remember the combo, fully case it, until you are on the hunting grounds. On the hunting grounds, you load up, chamber a round, and cross that big yellow bright line that says you are hunting.

When you handle a rifle, or at least have on in your vehicle 365 days a year, and some bureaucrat declares "Today you can shoot one more thing", there isn't this intense need to change what works the other 364 days of the year and chamber a round as you walk out the back door.

I did ask eleven of the PH's who I have contact info for. They were unanimous, out of the bakkie, load the rifle, show me the safety is "ON" and let's get tracking...

Try checking in with any of them that post. Ask the neutral question: do your clients load the rifle when they get out of the bakkie or not?

They all say yes!
This has nothing to do with you as a person, we just think this is the wrong approach.

Rich
DRSS

I load the rifle before I leave home...If I know the client and his rifle, I am happy if he does the same.

For a PH though, there have been too many Accidental discharges with faulty rifles to take this liberty with an unknown rifle and a new client...therfore I generally ask him to chamber a round only after we get off the truck. I also typically sugest to most clients that they leave the rounds in the magazine at all times, even in camp at night. (of course, there are some clients where you don't want them anywhere near you with a loaded rifle, so those you ask to chamber a round only when a stalk is immenant and you empty the thing yourself when you get back to the truck!

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
(of course, there are some clients where you don't want them anywhere near you with a loaded rifle, so those you ask to chamber a round only when a stalk is immenant and you empty the thing yourself when you get back to the truck!

sh@t - yes bloody good idea...

quote:

(of course, there are some clients where you don't want them anywhere near you with a loaded rifle, so those you ask to chamber a round only when a stalk is immenant and you empty the thing yourself when you get back to the truck!

Yep. I think we've hunted with a few of the same guys.

quote:

Well, not living in AK, but growing up on a ranch in SD an WY, let me see if I can explain it to you. In the small towns and rural area's of these states, guns are not something you take hunting once a year when you pull them out of the safe. They are an integrated part of your daily life. Every pickup has a gunrack in it. The gunrack holds a whip, a rope, and a rifle. It doesn't have to be hunting seasons for to be handling a rifle every day. You never know when you might need one, rattlesnake, fox, coyote, skunk in the shop, ect, so you always have it. Since you ALWAYS have one, that means you send alot more time handling them around the home, vehicles, horses, cattle, fences, ect.

Remember in this and other threats where every keeps saying, I always have a round in the chamber EXCEPT. Well, we spend so much time handling a firearm around all those exceptions, they would spend alot of time chambering and unchambering rounds.

Now for some of our posters, when deer season opens, it means you go get your rifle out of the safe, where it's been since last year, if you can remember the combo, fully case it, until you are on the hunting grounds. On the hunting grounds, you load up, chamber a round, and cross that big yellow bright line that says you are hunting.

When you handle a rifle, or at least have on in your vehicle 365 days a year, and some bureaucrat declares "Today you can shoot one more thing", there isn't this intense need to change what works the other 364 days of the year and chamber a round as you walk out the back door.

Antelope,

FYI...that is exactly how I grew up. I even took my rifle to school sometimes before I started driving and kept it in my locker.

I grew up ranching in West Texas. Guns were and still are for me a way of life. Just like Ganyana...I load my rifle and chamber round when I get into the pick-up NOT when I get out. And when hunting elk horse back...I usually carry a round in the chamber of my rifle in my saddle scabbard as well.

quote:

It must be something about Alaska and loaded rifles????

As a general rule...AK guides have poor track record for saftey anyway. And...they are always shooting there clients animals as well.

I have never hunted in AK...but...if I do...I am going to walk around with a round in the chamber og my rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
I load the rifle before I leave home...If I know the client and his rifle, I am happy if he does the same.

For a PH though, there have been too many Accidental discharges with faulty rifles to take this liberty with an unknown rifle and a new client...therfore I generally ask him to chamber a round only after we get off the truck. I also typically sugest to most clients that they leave the rounds in the magazine at all times, even in camp at night. (of course, there are some clients where you don't want them anywhere near you with a loaded rifle, so those you ask to chamber a round only when a stalk is immenant and you empty the thing yourself when you get back to the truck!

On my first African hunt the PH didn't know me from Adam so on our first track he walked behind me as I followed the lead tracker. After that morning he would walk in front of me between me and the tracker. That puzzled me so I asked him about it. He said that he was watching how I carried my rifle and whether or not I was prone to point it at the tracker. Apparently I passed his safety test. On questioning he said that if the client failed he would have him carry an unloaded rifle and only load it for the final approach. He didn't want to get shot in the back by a nervous and overly excited client. Sounds like a good plan to me.

465h&H

quote:

Lane,

I knew I should have not posted on this thread. If that I the most rediculous (sic) thing you have ever heard you must stay off the ARPF. This guide was not with us, it was just a buddy from LA and me who were hunting. We chose to take the advice of a person who made his living in the wild carrying a gun.

Probably every other hunt I have made the round is chambered.

It must be something about Alaska and loaded rifles????

Sir...as I said...I meant NO dis respect. But hunting with an unloaded rifle makes NO sense to me...I am sorry.

I got my hand slapped for making a statement on the ARPF once...so I now avoid like the plague.

Agree with the majority!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Why...it just makes no sense to me. I would like to understand the reasoning. Also...it seems like AK people are more likely to run around emty chambered...why???

I run around with an empty chamber because I spend MILES walking/hiking for every shot at a big game animal. Nearly all of my hiking is spent with the rifle on my shoulder/back in a sling. Unless I have 100% control of the muzzle I do not load the chamber. When I am shouldering/unshouldering I have control of the rifle & muzzle but not 100% control and that is simply not good enough with a loaded firearm IMO. If I am walking/hiking with the rifle in my hands I've no issue with keeping a round in the chamber, but otherwise I carry in condition 3 and ask other hunters with me to do the same--no exceptions.

I wait for the hunt to start.

Snowwolfe,

be happy, people are so busy mf-ing mark sullivan they have forgotten about you.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Scott:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Why...it just makes no sense to me. I would like to understand the reasoning. Also...it seems like AK people are more likely to run around emty chambered...why???

I run around with an empty chamber because I spend MILES walking/hiking for every shot at a big game animal. Nearly all of my hiking is spent with the rifle on my shoulder/back in a sling. Unless I have 100% control of the muzzle I do not load the chamber. When I am shouldering/unshouldering I have control of the rifle & muzzle but not 100% control and that is simply not good enough with a loaded firearm IMO. If I am walking/hiking with the rifle in my hands I've no issue with keeping a round in the chamber, but otherwise I carry in condition 3 and ask other hunters with me to do the same--no exceptions.

Many times while on backpack hunts covering miles in mountainous terrain, I've found that I needed to sling or pack my rifle. But at times I'd also catch myself slinging my rifle for greater ease when the conditions were such that I should have been carrying the rifle in the grasp of my hand to better control the muzzle. I was taught an old rule that when hiking through hunting grounds while hunting, if the terrain allows, remove and pack the sling to ensure that you have your rifle at the ready in your hands. When you reach a difficult situation where you must free up your hands, you then sling and/or pack the rifle. This may sound silly, but on the many backpack hunts I've done over the years, I've run into several strong backpacking hunter/hikers who spent little time carrying their rifles in hand and therefore would quickly tire when holding the rifle covering ground. Their forearm and hand strength would give out rather quickly and you'll begin to notice the rifle going from left hand to right hand, shifting back and forth. I've always been of the mindset that this all goes towards safety in the sense of spending time not only practicing marksmanship skills and training to stay in shape to safely hike a distance through the outdoors, but to also have the endurance and strength to solidly manage your rifle in hand without having to rely upon a gun bearer during times you are in the hunting mode.

Otherwise, I think some of the posts at first blush sound as though the posters are on different sides of the topic, but in reality, some are actively engaged in the hunting mode the minute their boots hit the ground out of the truck or out of the front door. Others are engaged in arduous journeys on foot with great amounts of downtime and glassing with ample distance and time prior to gearing up for a hunting mode stalk. Though both situation may sound greatly different in terms of loaded chamber or not, both are actually on the same page.

As for anyone who may be actively engaged in a stalk with rifle in hand yet with an empty chamber with the intent to only chamber just prior to sending a round downrange, that I do not understand.

Best

All right, I am going to post this because it answers my own question of "do I know anybody like that". I have a friend that I know grew up on a ranch in New Mexico.

So I sent him an email and filled him in on the discussion and asked him what his practice was. Here was the reply I got:

"hey b-man

I lived on a 66 square mile cattle ranch, one of 3. that one was the smallest. we carried rifles on horse back and in all pickups. there was game every where deer, antelope, quail, dove, and tons of rattle snakes. we never ever rode or drove with a round in the chamber, there was no need you always had time to load and shoot and if you missed one there was always tomorrow he he.
cheers,"

So I guess it is not unique to Alaska

By the way, I calculated the size of that in acres, 42000 acres!!! Wow!

Red

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

quote:

I think it was Clint Eastwood, but I can't remember which movie:

"You gonna shoot that thing or spend the day talkin'?"

Outlaw Josie Whales. Not quite the exact words more like: "Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" If this is the quote you refer to?

Here is a link: http://www.quotes.net/movies/8535

Go ahead make my day.

May have been John Wayne . . . And if they never said it, they should have.

I hunt Africa and Idaho, and the men I hunt with say,out of the rig, off the horse, chamber a round, and let's go kill something.

And,'cause my dog is bigger than your dog...

Rich
happiness is a warm loaded gun...

quote:

By the way, I calculated the size of that in acres, 42000 acres!!! Wow!

That was a pasture on the ranch I grew up on as a kid in the panhandle of TX.

Man I'd love to live on a spread that size. And I'd build my place right smack in the middle to get myself as far away from all neighbors as possible.

Even then I'm sure somehow my wife would find me. ha!

Red

quote:

Who puts a round in the chamber as soon as they set off out of the truck or off the horse?
188 (94%) say: yes they do


12 (6%)say they hunt with an empty chamber .

The masses have spoken!!!

Every animal I pulled the trigger on when I had an empty chamber got away unscathed!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:
Every animal I pulled the trigger on when I had an empty chamber got away unscathed!!!

As I have stated before on a similar thread, an empty gun is a club.

I have not killed many animals with a club.

If a person wants to wait until game is spotted to load their gun, MPTT(More Power To The Them).

But if I am there, they are only going to have a 10 second window to get their shit together before I shoot.

Unloaded guns do not kill game, whether trophies or not.

I once killed a 'possum with a club to the head.
He was a trophy boar 'possum and I had him full-body mounted hanging by his tail from some driftwood.
I was reliving my first hunt from childhood.
My GrandPop used his blue tick hound named "Rack" to trail a 'possum to a burrow.
Pop reached in with his bare hand and pulled the 'possum out by his tail, then clubbed his head,
took him home and we had oven-baked sweet taters and 'possum for supper that night.
That was on a hillside in 'Possum Hollow Kentucky.

Pop always hunted with a round in the chamber and his safety on, especially the one between his ears.

My next hunt was a squirrel hunt. You gotta keep a round in the chamber for that too.

I always have a round chambered when hunting on foot unless i'm following someone. Sometimes things happen quick and the sound and movement involved in chambering a round is a deal breaker if game is under 100 yds.