I think if you bumped the WTBY up to a 350 gr. bullet, it would be a close race with the .416. I have all of the above and feel that for North American hunting where ranges can be long, the .375 WTBY is worthwhile. That said, if I was taking one to Africa, I would take my standard H&H. Nowadays though, with great monometal solids being produced that can take the higher velocity without riviting, large bore WTBY's are finally coming into their own. Getting high velocity is fairly easy with the 300 gr. Hornady, Its short bearing surface allows that, but I am damned if I would hunt dangerous game with it... I would be wary of using it on elk. I quit believing much about hydrostatic shock after using my 44 mag pistol on Texas whitetail. The one that did it was a quartering away shot @ 65 yds with a 240 gr hp handload @ 1240 fps(mild) probably almost subsonic @65 yds. Went in through the lungs, exited the off shoulder and absolutley turned the entire shoulder into jelly.
All of those deer shot with high velocity rifles in the shoulder with similar results that I had been attributing to Hydro through the years, well, that theory went out the window! Anyway, just my .02.

After reading this thread about the 375 Weatherby, the same can almost be said of the 375 Ruger of today!

Guys

Everybody talks about how another 100 to 150 fps isn't much, but have you got any Idea how much extra energy another 150 fps gives a 300g projectile.

I see this arguement all the time with 458 Win Mag and 458 Lott users, it's like....."Oh it's only another 150 fps so why bother", well you bother because the extra knock down energy levels of a 500g projectile going ONLY 150fps quicker is worth it.

A 45g .22 projectile going 150 fps quicker than another really is minimal, but a 300, 500 or 750g projectile travelling another 150fps quicker has significant increases in energy levels

When shooting large animals that can really soak up energy even an extra 50 fps with say a 500g projectile could deliever just the right amount of extra shock to give a better result.

So you number crunchers out there, do the calculation for us using energy levels,

Lets start buy working out how much more energy a 300g projectile has going 150 fps quicker

regards
S&F

Since the great concern when shooting buffalo with a .375 seems to be a bullet that passes through and hits another, I think it's pointless. Now, for Alaskan shooting I've use HH heavy magnum and Wthby... would do again. Just to flatten it out a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by CanadianLefty:
After reading this thread about the 375 Weatherby, the same almost be said of the 375 Ruger of today!

"Almost".

The .375 Ruger ain't no .375 Weatherby.

I think the 375 Wby gets more endorsement than just about any other calibre but all those positives seem to seldom manifest as rifles chambered in 375 Wby. Be interesting to see how it would sell if available in cheaper factory rifles or even the standard Mark V synthetic.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
Be interesting to see how it would sell if available in cheaper factory rifles or even the standard Mark V synthetic.

Very good point.

I suppose if the only factory offering in 30-06 was a $2700 Weatherby Custom Shop rifle, there would be a lot more .308's. Add a 70, 700 and 77 chambering in .375 Wby. and see where it goes. Additionally, if Winchester, Remington or Federal offered a $50/box ammo for it, the popularity (as shown by rifles sold) of the .375 Roy would be quite different.

Strut10, Founder of the OTPG,
Yep, the .375 Wby beats the .375 Ruger by as much as the .375 Ruger beats the .375 H&H.
Of course, having the .375 Ruger fit in a shorter action makes it worthy.
What is the OTPG?

This thread:
A blast from the past returns!
Might as well riposte this:

Here is the accuracy reamer to convert your H&H to Wby
(Dave Manson has since changed the business name to
Manson Precision Reamers):

http://www.mansonreamers.com/



This is still the smallest 3-shot group at 100 yards that I have shot:



Use the real Norma-made .375 Wby brass for greatest capacity, greatest velocity, lowest pressures.

My RL-15 load might be in the "point-ones,"
but I recommend H4350 with 300-grainers for "point-twos"
at higher velocity and lower pressures.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Strut10, Founder of the OTPG,
Yep, the .375 Wby beats the .375 Ruger by as much as the .375 Ruger beats the .375 H&H.
Of course, having the .375 Ruger fit in a shorter action makes it worthy.

What is the OTPG?

RIP.........

Agreed on the power margins of the various .375's.

I've been "lugging" a 26" barrel around for a good many years and have never once wished it were shorter. That's why the whole .375 Ruger craze has been lost on me. I suppose there could be some instance where it might be handy. I just haven't found it yet. Think I'll keep my extra 3"-6" of barrel and 150-200 fps.

OTPG: Off The Porch Gang.

A highly revered, magnum shooters' society on another website I frequent frequently. We are the most serious, most envied and most seriously envied shooters' fraternity on the web.

Everyone keeps posting that you can shoot H&H ammo in a Weatherby chamber. Well, if you do, you're going to get lower velocity than in an H&H chamber. The same powder cjharge in a larger case volume means lower velocity.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
Everyone keeps posting that you can shoot H&H ammo in a Weatherby chamber. Well, if you do, you're going to get lower velocity than in an H&H chamber. The same powder cjharge in a larger case volume means lower velocity.

But of course, Grasshopper,
and this allows much greater versatility:

The standard .375 H&H 300-grain ammo,
when fired in a .375 Weatherby chamber,
loses about 100-150 fps and becomes a lower recoil, more deadly load on target,
according to Doctari Robertson principles.

But the same chamber can add 200 fps to max .375 H&H loads, using full loads of .375Wby.

You now have the option of two very different velocities with 300 grainers:
2400 fps Doctaris dead on at 100 yards
or
2700 fps W-bees 3 inches high at 100 yards, maybe dead-on at 250 yards,
merely by switching ammo in the chamber.

I have done this, it works.
Accurate too.

Strut10,
My heroes, Boone and Crockett, used 42" barrels quite often.
I think anything shorter than 23" is a stunt.
26" is just perfect for handiness.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

You now have the option of two very different velocities with 300 grainers:
2400 fps Doctaris dead on at 100 yards
or
2700 fps W-bees 3 inches high at 100 yards, maybe dead-on at 250 yards,
merely by switching ammo in the chamber.

I have done this, it works.
Accurate too.

Do you purposely run the 300's a tad on the slow side? Should be able to wring another 100 out of them, should you not?

quote:

Strut10,
My heroes, Boone and Crockett, used 42" barrels quite often.
I think anything shorter than 23" is a stunt.
26" is just perfect for handiness.

I've pushed my 26" barrel ahead of me as I belly-crawled for many a mile. I've beaten through grapevine and multiflora rose patches that made hell look like the easy way out.

I've never contemplated chopping any length off.

What are the respective velocities of the 300 H & H and the 375 Wtby with 260 gr Accubonds or the 270 gr TSX?

Just for comparison with my 375 Ruger 3 groove PacNor barrel finished at 24".

Strut10,
My 24" barrel velocity is 2740 fps, so just rounded off to 2700 fps.

I agree the 300-grain-bullet velocity of the .375 Wby is 2800 fps with 26" barrel.
I have even exceeded that velocity with no pressure signs in a 25" barreled CZ when I load to 3.75" COL with long box, instead of the factory 3.6" length.

Factory 300-grain Nosler loads in the .375 Wby give an honest 2800 fps in a 26" barrel.

26" barrels are indeed handy for packin', pokin', and shootin', as long as you are not a midget.
I concur.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
What are the respective velocities of the 300 H & H and the 375 Wtby with 260 gr Accubonds or the 270 gr TSX?

Just for comparison with my 375 Ruger 3 groove PacNor barrel finished at 24".

If all else is equal then the 375 Wby will be a bit faster than the 375 Ruger as the 375 Ruger will be a bit faster than the 375 H&H

I reach 2800 and change with factory ammo in a 24" barrel Mod 70 stainless classic. Guess this one has a fast barrel.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Strut10,
My 24" barrel velocity is 2740 fps, so just rounded off to 2700 fps.

I agree the 300-grain-bullet velocity of the .375 Wby is 2800 fps with 26" barrel.
I have even exceeded that velocity with no pressure signs in a 25" barreled CZ when I load to 3.75" COL with long box, instead of the factory 3.6" length.

Factory 300-grain Nosler loads in the .375 Wby give an honest 2800 fps in a 26" barrel.

26" barrels are indeed handy for packin', pokin', and shootin', as long as you are not a midget.
I concur.

If a 375 H&H = a yard and a 375 Wby = a meter, then a 375 Ruger is ~ 38".

I bet that a critter shot with on of the three, could not tell you which one of the above shot him.

Keith

I have a 375 H&H Ackley Improved, which is essentially a 375 Weatherby. Using a 26.5" barrel and 94 grs. of Norma MRP I'm getting 2900 fps at the muzzle (~5600 ft#) with 300 gr. SGK. I'm getting similar velocities with 300 gr Failsafe bullets and 89 grs of Normal 204. Not bad, but it kicks like a MULE!! All I can handle, and indeed, IMO at limit of what a human can be expected to handle with accuracy. It is is accurate as well. Hard to imagine you need more for anything on the Planet Earth. Regards, AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I have a 375 H&H Ackley Improved, which is essentially a 375 Weatherby. Using a 26.5" barrel and 94 grs. of Norma MRP I'm getting 2900 fps at the muzzle (~5600 ft#) with 300 gr. SGK. I'm getting similar velocities with 300 gr Failsafe bullets and 89 grs of Normal 204. Not bad, but it kicks like a MULE!! All I can handle, and indeed, IMO at limit of what a human can be expected to handle with accuracy. It is is accurate as well. Hard to imagine you need more for anything on the Planet Earth. Regards, AIU

I've actually never chrono'ed any of my 300 gr. loads as I don't use them in the field as yet. I stumbled on a real nice 250 SGK load with H-414 that's good for 3060 fps from my 26" barrel. It works very nicely for my purposes. I can honestly say that I notice no appreciable (or any at all really) difference in recoil between the 250's and 300's. My gun weighs 8 1/2 lbs. scoped and loaded. With a Sims pad, it is not beyond what I'd call "fun" yet. But it does seem come back very fast. Percieved recoil is actually brisker than the .416 Rem, .416 Rigby and .458 Win (one each) that I have shot. It's very possible that the 300's I've loaded are not yet up to full Wby. snuff yet. 2900 fps with a 300 grainer is pretty impressive.

give me the 375H&H every time. I can get bullets in Dog Pound B.C. Canada at the corner gas station, I dont think they stock 375 Weatherby.
The critters you kill will not know the diff in the 100 to 150 FPS in MV. With 235 grain Barnes I get 3000fps and change out the business end and that's good enough for me.

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester

The 375 Wby is what the H&H wanted to be when it grew up.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
The 375 Wby is what the H&H wanted to be when it grew up.

Well, maybe, but about a 100 years of life should say somthing. I've had a couple of .375 Wea. they got higher velocity, kicked more and never hunted with them. However, if velocity is the need may I suggest a .378 WM. Now I have hunted with it and its a killer! (Maybe on both ends.)

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

Well, maybe, but about a 100 years of life should say somthing. I've had a couple of .375 Wea. they got higher velocity, kicked more and never hunted with them. However, if velocity is the need may I suggest a .378 WM. Now I have hunted with it and its a killer! (Maybe on both ends.)

Just out of curiosity...........

I've heard and read tales of how vicious the .378 Roy is to shoot (some claim worse than the .416 and .460 Wby's). Never had the opportunity to touch one off.

How much stouter is it than the .375 Wby..........really???

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

Well, maybe, but about a 100 years of life should say somthing. I've had a couple of .375 Wea. they got higher velocity, kicked more and never hunted with them. However, if velocity is the need may I suggest a .378 WM. Now I have hunted with it and its a killer! (Maybe on both ends.)

Just out of curiosity...........

I've heard and read tales of how vicious the .378 Roy is to shoot (some claim worse than the .416 and .460 Wby's). Never had the opportunity to touch one off.

How much stouter is it than the .375 Wby..........really???

This photo shows Col D.H. Byrd and his "cat rifle", a custom 7mm Roy, along with Gen. Doolittle. This rifle, along with Byrd's .378 Roy are now in my uncle's collection and he says the 378 is downright brutal. According to him, the 7mm is pleasant by comparison.
I would like to try it next to my .375 Ruger at some point but the results are predictable.

Exaggerations of the recoil horrors of 378 WBY rifles are due to rifles that are too light and/or poorly stocked for the shooter's fit.

Run the numbers.
Then add some weight and a stock that suits the shooter.

I like a 6# .375 H&H, an 8# .375 WBY, and a 10# 378 WBY.
2 pounds extra rifle weight for each 200 fps extra velocity with the 300-grain bullet.

The North Fork 350g Soft point at 2550 fps out of a 375 Weatherby would be hard to beat.

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Exaggerations of the recoil horrors of 378 WBY rifles are due to rifles that are too light and/or poorly stocked for the shooter's fit.

Run the numbers.
Then add some weight and a stock that suits the shooter.

I like a 6# .375 H&H, an 8# .375 WBY, and a 10# 378 WBY.
2 pounds extra rifle weight for each 200 fps extra velocity with the 300-grain bullet.

Apparently we're only talking 5 lbs. difference in recoil between an 8 lb. 375 Wby and a 10 lb. .378 Wby with max 300 gr. loads.

Must be a lot of ill-fitting .378's out there or maybe a lot of B.S.'ers ????

RIP,
Byrd's 378 is definitely not a 10 lb gun. 8, maybe. Stock fit is certainly a factor as well as this particular 378 has all the old Weatherby stock features and was built for Byrd's dimensions. My uncle is a much larger man and I am sure that makes it more painful.

Here's a link for ft/lb calculations:

The formula is Energy = Weight times Velocity Squared divided by 450395 (fixed constant).

http://www.reloadammo.com/footpound2.htm

500 gr. @ 2200 fps (.458 Win. Mag.) = 5373.1 ft/lb

500 gr. @ 2350 fps (.458 Lott) = 6130.7 ft/lb

150 fps velocity = 757.6 ft/lb

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I have a 375 H&H Ackley Improved, which is essentially a 375 Weatherby. ... Not bad, but it kicks like a MULE!! All I can handle, and indeed, IMO at limit of what a human can be expected to handle with accuracy.

I had a .375 Wby that G&H put together for me. I had been a big fan of the 375H&H and I looked at the increase in velocity the 375Wby offered and I thought it would be the perfect caliber for me. But when I shot it it rattled my teeth. It is one thing to calculate foot pounds of recoil and another thing to experience them. When shooting 375H&H I experienced a big firm shove. When shooting the 375Wby I experienced a violent slap. I think the difference must be attributable to the amount of time those recoil foot pound took to recoil. Fast hard push vs. violent slap.

You can sit on a rocket that delivers XX foot pounds of energy over one minute as it launches you into space. The gravitational pull you would experience would be tremendous. But it would be nothing compared to sitting on a block of TNT that delivers the same XX foot pounds of energy over one millisecond as it blows you to kingdom come.

Shooting my 375Wby was so uncomfortable that I ended up using nothing but 375H&H ammo in it. I've shot 450NE, 470NE, 458WinMag, some wildcat 458s and 500s, and even 40mm shoulder fired from an M79 and the 375Wby "felt" the worst. I finally saw the light, sold the rifle, and bought a nice rifle in 375H&H.

The 375Wby performs beautifully. Shoot all you want. In fact, I promise not to shoot anymore 375Wby ammo just so you can shoot more.

I have quite a few guns that bracket my 375 Weatherby; larger and smaller. 338's, 340 Wea, 375 H&H, 375 Wea, 416 Rem, 458 WM and 459 Lott in bolts and a 470 double.
I cannot tell the difference between a push and a slap. what does make a difference to me in recoil is the LOP. My natural LOP is 13.75 to 14.00" (bolt gun). My 375 and 340 Wea have 13.5 LOP's in McMillan fiberglass stocks. These have shorter LOP as they have typically accompanied me to colder climated where I will have some heavier clothing making up for the shorter LOP. When shooting these guns off the bench, they are just less comfortable however due to that shorter LOP. I believe my 416 Rem is about the same or a little less but it has a 14" LOP. I had a 8 lb 458WM with a 13.5 LOP that made that 375 Wea feel like a pussy cat.
I added about a pound to that gun in the stock and a scope and bases that made it another 14-16 oz and it is much better.
Sort of fun to shoot any of the guns mentioned and then pull the trigger on a 243; like a 22!

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I have a 375 H&H Ackley Improved, which is essentially a 375 Weatherby. ... Not bad, but it kicks like a MULE!! All I can handle, and indeed, IMO at limit of what a human can be expected to handle with accuracy.

I had a .375 Wby that G&H put together for me. I had been a big fan of the 375H&H and I looked at the increase in velocity the 375Wby offered and I thought it would be the perfect caliber for me. But when I shot it it rattled my teeth. It is one thing to calculate foot pounds of recoil and another thing to experience them. When shooting 375H&H I experienced a big firm shove. When shooting the 375Wby I experienced a violent slap. I think the difference must be attributable to the amount of time those recoil foot pound took to recoil. Fast hard push vs. violent slap.

You can sit on a rocket that delivers XX foot pounds of energy over one minute as it launches you into space. The gravitational pull you would experience would be tremendous. But it would be nothing compared to sitting on a block of TNT that delivers the same XX foot pounds of energy over one millisecond as it blows you to kingdom come.

Shooting my 375Wby was so uncomfortable that I ended up using nothing but 375H&H ammo in it. I've shot 450NE, 470NE, 458WinMag, some wildcat 458s and 500s, and even 40mm shoulder fired from an M79 and the 375Wby "felt" the worst. I finally saw the light, sold the rifle, and bought a nice rifle in 375H&H.

The 375Wby performs beautifully. Shoot all you want. In fact, I promise not to shoot anymore 375Wby ammo just so you can shoot more.

Interesting, not disagreeing with you but my experience is completely the opposite. I have a .375 Wby and it's not bad at all to shoot. I guess it come down to stock design/fit and weight as a buddy of mine has a lightweight .300 RUM that is a nasty little devil and much more unpleasant than my .375 Wby.

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

Well, maybe, but about a 100 years of life should say somthing. I've had a couple of .375 Wea. they got higher velocity, kicked more and never hunted with them. However, if velocity is the need may I suggest a .378 WM. Now I have hunted with it and its a killer! (Maybe on both ends.)

Just out of curiosity...........

I've heard and read tales of how vicious the .378 Roy is to shoot (some claim worse than the .416 and .460 Wby's). Never had the opportunity to touch one off.

How much stouter is it than the .375 Wby..........really???

The 378 kicks way more than a 375 WBY, you're burning 20 grs. more powder behind the same bullet. I've only had a 375 JRS and Ackley it compare but same as 375 WBY. I personally like the WBY stocks for handling recoil. I've had a couple of 378s and 2 460s. I think the 460 has more overall recoil;. The 378 is a little snappier. When you get to that level they're not for inexperienced shooters. You don't let the one gun 308 guy shoot it just for laughs. It'll likely bust his forehead if it gets away.

The increased velocity of 200+ fps of the 375 Weatherby over the 375 H&H could be a drawback with Softs at close range for buffalo hunting. Here we can see a report from Rich Elliott of where a 300 Gr. Swift A-Frame flattened on the shoulder blade of a Nile Buffalo that was fired at very close range from a .375 Remington Ultra Mag @ approx. 2,760 fps. And his remark ... "No penetration. Too much velocity?"

http://forums.accuratereloadin...141015601#9141015601

Many a PH that is using a 375 H&H down load their ammo to 2,350 to 2,400 fps, rather than the traditional 2,530 fps. Any more velocity just degrades bullet performance with extra recoil.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by MTM:
The 378 kicks way more than a 375 WBY, you're burning 20 grs. more powder behind the same bullet. I've only had a 375 JRS and Ackley it compare but same as 375 WBY. I personally like the WBY stocks for handling recoil. I've had a couple of 378s and 2 460s. I think the 460 has more overall recoil;. The 378 is a little snappier. When you get to that level they're not for inexperienced shooters. You don't let the one gun 308 guy shoot it just for laughs. It'll likely bust his forehead if it gets away.

I have a friend that has the 378 Roy, I have the 416 Roy. Shooting between the two I experienced the the snappier recoil of the 378 while the 416 is more of a push. This is with both rifles in stock configuration, the 378 was magnaported while the 416 has the accubrake.

I can't say the recoil from the 378 was unbearable, however it was a bit sharper than the 416 with factory loads.

Cheers,
Sam

I loved my 375 Wby. I did not find the recoil unpleasent. It did everything it was supposed to do and more. I'd own one right now if they made it in a Sauer, Mauser, or Blaser.

Ed

quote:

I cannot tell the difference between a push and a slap. what does make a difference to me in recoil is the LOP.

Amen! For many years I listened to the push vs slap theories and at one point even tried to talk myself into believing it. My 7.5 pound 450 Ackley would "push" me back almost two steps while rattling my teeth at the same time. Recoil is recoil and to much is painful no matter if it is a push or slap. Put me down on the list as one who believes there is no difference between the push or slap.

quote:

Originally posted by Shorty4T:

This is with both rifles in stock configuration, the 378 was magnaported while the 416 has the accubrake.

I can't say the recoil from the 378 was unbearable, however it was a bit sharper than the 416 with factory loads.

Cheers,
Sam

Big difference between Magnaporting and the Accubrake

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

Amen! For many years I listened to the push vs slap theories and at one point even tried to talk myself into believing it. My 7.5 pound 450 Ackley would "push" me back almost two steps while rattling my teeth at the same time. Recoil is recoil and to much is painful no matter if it is a push or slap. Put me down on the list as one who believes there is no difference between the push or slap.

It is the mind...slow heavy bullet equates to slow recoil....

The facts are the rifle will achieve its recoil velocity by the time it has moved back an 1/8th of an inch or so. After that the rifle is in free recoil.

From what I've read from people like Ganyana, Kevin Thompson and other PH's whose names I tend to forget, is that dangerous game like buffalo and elephant - which are usually shot at ranges of 50 yards or so - are more affected by slowing down the velocity of the H&H round to approximately 2400 fps as to provide better stabilization/penetration. I would guess that the same would hold true of other .375 caliber cartridges, no matter what the name brand. Perhaps the situation changes with monometal projectiles. I think most dangerous game cartridges send their projectiles off at around 2100 - 2400 fps as to maintain projectile integrity/penetration. If you increase the velocity of a projectile for use on dangerous game at close range, I could understand how bullet failure could increase. I see the faster .375 caliber cartridges as more of a large plains game set-up whereas the H&H velocity is more an all-purpose (plains-game and dangerous game) set-up. Ganyana specifically states that any .375 caliber bullet travelling faster than traditional H&H velocity is no good for elephant. Once again, that may change with monometal projectiles. I believe he says it does not matter although I think Saeed would disagree with him. Any way, I don't understand why there is such a need for the extra velocity with the 300 grain or larger bullet out of a .375 caliber cartridge. The way I look at it is that the 300 - 350 grainers travelling 2300 - 2500 fps are for dangerous game at close range. The 270 grainers travelling 2600 - 2800 fps are for large plains game. These velocities work well for the game intended and always have. I also think most people are going to do better long range work on large plains game with a lighter projectile that recoils less, enhancing accuracy. I know I am better at long range with a 270 grain bullet at 2700 fps than a 300 grain bullet at 2800 fps or more. The faster 300 grainers just kick me too much to be accurate at 250 yards or beyond. I think the H&H round is the best of all .375 caliber cartridges for all around use but that is just me talking.

Thanks and take care,

jfm