The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Double trigger question.....don't laugh!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have a question about double triggers on sideXside rifles/shotguns.......I have only owned one sideXside shotgun and traded it off because I could never get use to the double triggers after having shot an 870 for many many years...... Which trigger do you pull first??? | ||
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The one directly under your fingrer. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Sorry 'bout that. The front, then the finger moves naturally to the rear. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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On a SxS shotgun, the trigger you pull will depend on the choke you want if they are different. On a SxS double rifle I had heard that it is typical to use the front trigger first (right bbl). For me this makes little sense as one could trip the rear trigger during recoil. So (right or wrong), I tend to use the rear trigger first ... and reach for the front trigger as I bring the barrels down for the second shot. Will be most interested in future responses to this thread. Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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On a double I pull the back trigger first. Might keep you from doubling it. It just takes a bit of practice. 505ED DRSS Member | |||
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That's the way I learned on an older W/R that my hunting partner's dad owned and the triggers were touchy at that. I tried shooting the front trigger first and it doubled on me. This DR was sent back to get it fixed several times. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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The learning curve is steep after doubling a 470NE.  DRSS Member | |||
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If I remember correctly, on the shotgun I had, the rear trigger was further to the left than the front trigger.......when I tried to shoot the front trigger first, I never could get my finger on the back trigger for a quick second shot......for some reason, it never occured to me to shoot the rear trigger first.....probably because the rear trigger fired the barrel with the tightest choke and I nearly always shoot the tightest choke as the second shot on my over and under. | |||
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On a shotgun front trigger is usually fired first since right barrel choke has less constriction. If you miss with fist shot the "bird" will be further away so you want more choke in left barrel (rear trigger). Don't know anything about double rifles because they don't shoot "straight enough" for me but any piece worth a damn in caliber .375R Holland, or larger should have articulated front trigger. | |||
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PS. I can see how at close range in thick crap it would be an advantage to have two single barrel stoppers in one package.  Some folks even hold couple rounds between fingers of leading hand for that 3rd/4th shot, that wishful thinking!  For other situations there is a stronger, more plebian and accurate (usually) bolt gun.  Fuchs makes double barrel bolt gun but I hate to clear jam in that one, or carry it on a trek for that matter. | |||
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On a double rifle I do it the same as on a double shotgun: front trigger first, rear trigger second. To do it any other way would require me to learn something new...  | |||
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If you can teach yourself to do it, pull the rear trigger first. Not because of the possibility of doubling but because when the sh*t hits the fan, many will tend to pull the front trigger. If you have already pulled the front trigger, then you're dead. It is more natural in a panic situation to pull the front trigger second, if you have pulled the rear trigger first. Double triggers are crap and are only done for cheap. Makes no sense in a shotgun or a rifle. And if the retort is the reliability of two separate rifles with double triggers, the rifle is crap too if it is so unreliable that it needs two triggers.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Anyone who would go after DG, without practicing their ass off with the rifle they are going to use. Deservers what ever hits the fan. While I do not have a DR yet, I have been using SxS shotguns for years. It is a no brainer to change triggers, if you use them enough. Fast reloads should also be practiced. It is beyond me how anyone could go after DG and not be totaly in tune with what ever rifle they will be using, be it bolt or SxS. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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So Will Can't figure out those damned double triggers eh? | |||
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Actually, in many instances a single trigger on a shotgun is a sign of cost-saving on a cheap product. Would it be more confusing if there were 2 triggers and only 1 barrel instead of 2 barrels and only 1 trigger?  | |||
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That is all the reaction I'm going to get from double-trigger rifle fans? I must be slipping!  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Except that with driven game birds in England etc. the first shot would be the furtherest away (with incomming birds.) And I read somewhere that if one allowed ones grip to slide forward during recoil the front trigger will then be more easly reached. As someone has already pointed out, with different chokes and two triggers you get a choice. JL. | |||
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I think JAL has it right. I was always told that the true classic shotgun was set up so that the rear trigger was the normally used first barrel, depending on the type of shooting for which the gun was intended. The theory was that the recoil of the gun would tend to naturally help move your finger into position for the second shot. With double rifles, I don't see it makes much difference, unless there is a possibility of doubling due to choice. I will have to say I have never understood the mechanics of doubling supposedly caused by shooting the front trigger first. A lot of people have reported this with varying guns, but my finding has always been that the gun recoils away from the hand. I have a lot of bruised second fingers to proove it. There has also been a lot of money spent on building hinged front triggers on expensive doubles to protect your finger when it moves forward on recoil. As to the comment about double triggers being a cheap solution, I respectfully believe that is totally off base. I personally have spent extra money and/or a lot of time finding particular shotguns I want with double triggers. Once learned, there is absolutely no faster or instantly available barrel selection system. Over the years, it has even saved a few shots for me. I can remember several occasions when the shooting was fast, I took a single, broke the gun to reload and before I could, another quick single appears. With double triggers you can simply snap the barrels up and shoot. With almost any single trigger system I have ever used, you would be required to close the action and manually select the opposite barrel before firing. | |||
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500, Do you own this rifle, tell us about it please. ITS NICE! | |||
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Gentlemen, there is a big difference between a shotgun for shooting birds, and a heavy double rifle for pulling your butt out of the fire! A double shotgun with two triggers will usually have the right barrel the most open choke, and the left the tighter one. If you are pass shooting, with incomeing birds, you want to fire the tighter choke first, and the more open choke as the bird, or second bird slide in closer to you, and vice versa for walked up flushed birds. Most shotguns today have screw in chokes and are infinently adjusted to you purpose,so may be set up to fire in the opposite way if you want to use it that way. With a single selective trigger a simple switch to the shooting order you want is just a click away! On a double rifle however, you may shoot it how ever you want, just loade the barrel you want to shoot a certain type of bullet, then fire that barrel first if you are close. Example most while tracking load a soft point in one barrel and a solid in the other. Useing the soft for the first shot on un disturbed animal, followed by the solid, with all subsequint reloads being solids. I personally use the front trigger first, when working up loads to shoot to regulation, because that is the order the factories use when regulating the rifle by machanical manipulation of the barrel wedges. I always try the rifle with the rear trigger first to see if it will regulate when fireing that trigger first. Even when hunting, I fire the front trigger first, even if it will regulate that way, because some of my doubles will not, and I don't need to try to remember which I'm shooting in a crisis. Now! I understand what Will is doing with his post, and I'll bite on the single trigger bait, by simnply asking, Will, anything can break, I think even you will give us that, right? If it can break, then it will usually break when you need it most! Is that a given? If we can agree on the fact that a whole rifle doesn't have to be junk for a singler part to give up the ghost. That said, I ask you, If a trigger breaks, for any reason, which would you rather have break one of two triggers, or a single trigger? With the double trigger rifle, you still have a workable single shot rifle. If a single trigger breaks, what you are left with is a 12 pound club. I don't know about you, you might be able to bullshit the MBOGO into thinking you can whip him, with that club, but I would much rather shoot him with the remaining barrel!  A single trigger is just about the only thing that can break that will put the whole double rifle out of service. Those who are willing to take that chance, it's only a couple thousand dollars to have the maker install a single trigger in your double rifle! I'll take the double trigger every time, and spend that $2K on a second Buffalo!  NOW! was that what you were looking for, Will?   ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Ain't mine! It's for sale on Chic Worthing's website. He posts on the gunsmithing forum here at AR. Tempting isn't it? | |||
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I shoot front trigger first when practicing but could go either way without problem since I shoot double trigger shotguns a ton. With the shotgun I shoot the barrel with the choke I think I need. For example I was dove hunting Friday and yesterday and fired rear trigger first, or only, a number of times. I'm left handed so the front trigger, on the right, requires me to have my trigger finger "stretched" across the rear trigger. I have never had a shotgun or my double rifle double, though you'd think that if it was going to happen from the trigger finger whacking the rear trigger in recoil that it would happen to me, or any other lefty. I haven't used my double rifle on game but will, hopefully on two buffalo, in one month in Zimbabwe. I will do as Mac does and have a soft in the right and a solid in the left. I wonder if my rifle was set up originally to shoot left barrel first since the left, rear, trigger had a lighter pull. I had the right, front trigger lightened so the it now has a pull about a pound less than the left. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Why, that's an ugly German sporter with set triggers. Larger bore with peep style sight and German-style set triggers, that's weired. With Eurox56 scope it would be a good setup for Sus hunt after dark from high seat. Operation is easy: pulling rear trigger sets front "hair trigger". When not set the trigger works like two stage trigger. Adjustment is easy: turning regulation screw clockwise reduces trigger pull and.....but you better know what you're doing!  NP: Pushing the rear trigger forward will discharge such a rifle!   | |||
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PS. Such triggers are nice on varmint rifles, or stalking rifles for Chamois, Ibex, Mouflon....hunting, but on a larger bores?  | |||
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Most double rifles were regulated to fire the right barrel (front trigger) first. If a customer requested it they would regulate the rifle by firing the left barrel (rear trigger) first. I have read but can't confirm from any personnal experience that doubles will fire better groups if the correct trigger is fired first. On matched pairs of double shotguns for driven birds, it was common practice to set the right barrel with a tighter choke then the left barrel as you would want the tighter choke first when taking incomong birds then the second gun was used for the going away birds and the right barrel has a more open choke than the left barrel. Guns for walk up hunting also had the right barrel more open chocked. In most cases the common practice was to always have the front trigger fire the right barrel. I haven't the foggiest idea of what Will is getting at but it is awfully early in the morning here in Idaho. 465H&H | |||
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I have never concerned my self with this as I shoot the choke I want in a shotgun depending on the range, and I have the option of a solid or soft in a double, so why the hell would I restrict myself to such a muscle memory practices as locking myself into doing something the same way everytime... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I will also suggest the double set trigger is the best trigger in the world for running shots, you just float the cross hairs or bead by and touch one off, it seems to works every time. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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MacD37 VERY WELL PUT, THREE CHEERS! Mauser Rifle Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others! | |||
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For upland birds I use a single trigger. When a bird flushes, the short choke is first and if I miss or wound the bird, the long choke is second. If you fire the long choke first, the bird will be even further away when you fire the short choke. For driven birds, just flip the switch and fire long first. Ted | |||
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How bout say dove hunting, never know where the shots going to be or where its coming from. Or for that matter ducks, how many times have they caught you when they buzz overhead...or grouse, pheasant and quail that flush out and turn back, especially with a good breeze...I could go on and on. By the way Lord Ripon, probably the best wing shot the world has seen - at least so far as live game and certainly driven game - recomended all chokes be bored 1/4, which with todays shotshells would produce about what you'd expect from whats stamped improved cylinder. He used two loaders who were full time employees and three double trigger hammer ejector Purdeys. I've seen a photo of him with SIX dead pheasants in the air over his head. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Ray, for me, running shots are best with a 2.0 lb trigger and a red dot or illuminated reticle scope. Anything else and I can't hit shit! 500 Grains, don't you know I have bills to pay, now that I have visited this Worthing guys website, I am having cold chills at night thinking about new big game rifles! | |||
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I'll never own a double rifle.....partly because they're more spendy than I like but mostly because IMO they need two triggers and I just can't shoot two triggers even on a shotgun. All my shotguns are either o/u or S/S and all have single triggers. This is fine as I'm not too concerned about a trigger failure during a pheasant charge. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, Your post reminds me that while I have never had any issues with double triggers or switching between guns with one or two triggers, one of my brothers never managed to learn to shoot double trigger guns and always had trouble switching fron one to two trigger guns and back. He finally sworw them off altogether. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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This is a classic "opinion" piece which will get lots of responses. The simple answer is that some countries (like Spain) have NEVER made a reliable single trigger for a shotgun. This is even though Spain now makes some superior guns. LC Smith made 7 iterations of their single trigger and finally got it sort of right. Some of the English NEVER got it right. The Parker repros were poor in many cases and even the Ruger Red Label had many problems with their single trigger. The Miller single trigger boys had a fine design and put them on all guns, including even Purdeys. Now one thing the English came up with were properly positioned double triggers and beautifully ergodynamic semi-pistol grips. I had a Westley Richards 500 #2 Express which had the best feeling system of double triggers I have ever felt. Anyone could learn to shoot DT's with this gun. LC Smith had three different positions for their double triggers which could be special ordered. With virtually no gunsmiths around in hunting areas in the last century, removeable sidelocks with extra sidelocks, etc were a very good idea. Intercepting sears were also a great idea. Searcy now offers this on their guns. A second trigger kept you in the ball game when one failed. The bottom line is that DTs are a back up safety feature and a good idea on DGRs. Many do not try to make them very ergodynamic, however. I hate the Chapuis for this reason. As for which to shoot first, it is different between rifles and shotguns. With a shotgun, you usually have a choice between different chokes. In very old guns, they were all open choke. In America, many of the turn of the century guns were all full chokes. But generally, you shoot the front trigger which is virtually always the more open choke. Now in a double rifle, in a pinch, you shoot the trigger your finger lands on. You should practice for this type of danger. An extra set of shotgun barrels is a real help for extra practice. I prefer to shoot the rear trigger first since I saw a friend double a 577 Nitro shooting the front trigger first. It resembled pounding a stake into the ground. I still laugh at the thought of it 30 years later, while my friend still is not laughing at it | |||
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All of your examples sound like good candidates for open choke first. Ted | |||
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Front trigger this and rear trigger that and what you do in a pinch and what not.....Hmmmmm You normally carry a double loaded with a solid and a soft, you pick the trigger you need based on the bullet you intend to shoot, and yes even in a pinch wherein you shoot the solid....Hunting elephant may be the exception if you only intend to use brain shots, I load a Northfork cup point and a flat nose solid by Bridger....cup point for heart shots, solid for brain or follow up shots into the hip joint. doubles are regulated right left or front trigger, back trigger, but in all the doubles I have shot it never made one bit of difference which barrel or what trigger you shot first, if it did then I would get rid of that gun and get another...... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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