Hi guys:

What is the ballistic difference between the 450-400 3" compared to the 450 3 1/4" 470 NE and might as well add the 500 NE. The 577 is not not my cup a tea. LOL

If we look at a minimal of a 500 grain bullet going at at a minimal 2100 FPS. Just for kicks, we will use this as the base power level as discussed on Tracks accross Africa by Boddington to take out an Ele with a brain shot and still achieve enough penetration.

It seems my 458 Lott doing 2300 FPS with a 500 grain slug has them all beat. But since I have the hots for a double rifle, I would like to see the ballistics the big 4 classic African cartriges mentioned above.

I know it's not an exact science but I would be more intrested in energy FT lbs. than the KO factor.

What do ya say.... Thanks..

Jim P.

Jim,
Ballistically the 450-400 does not have the same energy the 450 and 470 have but IMO is a wonderful cartridge, not a stopping caliber which for most sport hunters who cares if you shoot straight it will kill anything on the planet. The 450 and the 470 are ballistic twins when it comes to energy, I'd choose the 450 over the 470. The 500 is in a class of it's own and there is an objective difference between the termial effects of a 510 bullet and a 450 class bullet. Your lot will do it all and do it well but it's not a 50 caliber. I have owned a M-70 and a Empire rifle in 458 Lott and if I did not own a double rifle in 500 N.E. I would still have both of them in my possession.

Hi DL:

Thanks for the info. I did some research on the web and this is what I came up with. Your assesment is about dead on.

Hornadys new loadings, 450/400 NE 3" 400 grn bullet Vel muzzle 2050 Energy 3732... no 500 grain bullets..??

Hornady 450 NE 3 1/4" 480 Grn Bullet, Vel muzzle 2150 Energy 4927 close enough..

Hornady Powder/ RL 470 NE 500 Grn Barnes Bullet, Vel muzzle between 2141 to 2244 depending on powder & chg.

Hornady 458 lott, 500 grn DGS, Vel 2300 Energy 5872

500 NE....???????? I can't find any info in the charts?

It seems if a neophyte was going to pick a double caliber just on performance, and with a 500 grain bullet, with reasonable recoil, and wanted 2100 fps the 470 NE sort of fits the bill.

Regards... Jim P.

The .500 NE is a 570 grain bullet at between 2050 and 2150 fps. It has a Knock Out Value of approximately 85, not sure what the muzzle energy is other than "enough".

Depends on what you want, the .450/.400 would be a good plains game and buffalo rifle, and while you could use it on bigger game, there are better choices. The .470 is a good choice for buffalo and bigger and would meet the definition of a stopper. The .500 just smacks the crap out of them and if you can shoot it, is a wonderful stopping caliber.

In a double, that shoots a 500 grain bullet, lots of choices other than the .470, basically anything that shoots a .458 diameter bullet.

The 450-400 will be shooting a 100 grs. less bullet weight than the other two and the cross section is less, so there is a difference but all three are suitable for everything on this planet IMO.

The 450-3 1/4 is one of my favorite big bores and its the equal of the .470 for all practical purposes, at least in the field...

Of the 3, I personally use the 450-400 and am confident in its ability to get any job done if I do my part and that of course applies to any caliber....Recoil is less and the rifle can be lighter to pack all day..BTW I shoot a 400 gr. bullet at 2200 FPS in my Searcy 450-400-3" not at the weak 2000 FPS load of the Hornacy round.

I think PAHunter may be confused by the 450-400 designation. This round is a 450 case necked down to roughly .408 caliber, so it's a .40 caliber instead of a .45 caliber, hence, no 500 grain bullets. 400gr. max unless Woodleigh has something bigger I don't know about.

The 450-400 was intended to be the double-rifle equivalent of the 404 Jeffrey or vice-versa. It's a .40 caliber at roughly 2100fps. Very managable recoil with enough energy to use on pretty much anthing. Many would argue you need more velocity with a 400gr. bullet for elephant, but I'm sure many elephant have been taken with the original factory ballistics.

As for the 450's or 470's, I'd say pick one you like and move forward. The 500 would be another step up in whomping on both ends. Obviously there a lot of guys on here with much more knowledge than me, but I think maybe my post will clear up part of PA's question. The 450-400 is a different critter than a 450 or 470 and more so than a 500.

David

Hi Guys:

I do relise that the 450-400 is a 40 caliber cartridge. I do not know what is the heaviest bullet available for it though.

You see I have other big bores. I have a Model 70 375 H&H that shoots 270 Swift aframes at 2575 FPS deadly accurate sub MOA. I also have a Ruger 458 Wim mag that shoots 450 grain Swift AF's at 2150 FPS. Not to mention my custom 416 Rem Mag that shoots 400 Swif Af's at 2470 FPS hand loads. I also have the 458 Lott and we know the ballists of that one.

I am looking for a double rifle and I was trying not to duplicate a power range that I all ready had covered. That's why I thought the 470 would be more than the 416 Rem Mag and less than the Lott.... Or oh hell just go to the 500 NE and be done with it.

Decisions decisions...

Regards... Jim P.