Pac-Nor will make 12 ga from Hell barrels. It will take a order of five barrels( to cover the price of the button) for them to make Rifled 12 GA 30 inch CM steel barrel and they can also Chamber them for us!. I'll work out all the chamber dimensions and they can cut them on a CNC Lathe with a Carbide boring bar!. Price will be about $225/barrel. These will be 1.5 inch blanks that contour down to 1.2 inches at the Muzzel. Who's interested? Now that we've worked out how to put a Rim on the .50 BMG it's time to get dead serious.-Rob

Just curious, what twist rate are they looking at? and bore/groove diameter?

I acquired a pair of ER Shaw rifled shotgun barrel blanks a while ago for a paradox project, but found a better way to skin the cat. Now looking for a ten-bore shotgun with stuffed barrels, for a sleeving job!

When I get THIS double built, some hell will be raised among the local buffalo!

The Shaw tubes are only 25 inches long, but massive! ..and they've gone up, now $105 ea!

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/shotguns2.asp

you guys are sick!
woofer

I would be interested in a barrel "group buy" Do you think it could be built up as a single shot, maby a break open or dropping block action? Also was thinking of the NEF 10guage rifled setup as a starting point for a cheap lower pressure proof of concept. Possible? A double would be nice, but well out of my price range ;-)

The Shaw barrels would work for real low
regular plastic shotgun shell pressures, but to go to even 30-35000 psi, you absolutely
need more diameter and more barrel for big
loads of powder,Regular 12ga dimensioned barrels
would only be safe to 12-15000 psi.Shaw barrels on their site shows they are 1.225 in diameter,
with bore .719 and groove .729......That
diameter isn't big enough for higher pressures
in a 12 ga with a case base of .800.I think if
the right single can be found that is set up for
8 or 10 ga, and barrel cut off monoblock, then thread and screw the heavy barrel like Rob has
lined up, you could run 30-35000 psi.I am
looking and if I find one I will go in on a barrel.Be nice to have a pile of Mc Bros Actions,
but first one of them for me has to do my 700HE
wildcat.First gun I had was a Longtom 12 ga
single.Be nice to have a hairy version of it.Ed.

I have a 10ga double that looks pretty massive, chopper lumps and greener crossbolt, but I don't think it would do justice to the round.

Lar--With those Greener crossbolts it would be
better than most.And if there is enough do a mono
block with the big barrels you could do 30,000
psi.Should get a 1500 gr bullet to 1500 fps.Ed.

What are you guys doing now ? putting a rim on 50 bmg ?

Yes, we figured a way to thread a rim on that is safe and just as strong as BMG case, allowing high pressures if you want to load heavy.Will post pictures of mine when son gets back.
Rob made some also.His probably looks better.
I told Rob I will get a barrel in the deal, as I will find something to put it on in a single
break open action.
Had a thought, which is dangerous...Have seen aluminum reciever break open 12 ga.As long as wt is needed , why not buid a reciever and stock all from one pc of aircraft aluminum.Thumbhole style.
Won't have no problems with breaking stocks.Can
make reciever and a corresponding steel monoblock
large enough diameter to screw in big barrels.
Build monoblock with a top lock also included.
Use an oversize hardend steel pivot pin.
This would work for any large blaster.Make butt
of stock to take the biggest recoil pads.
Some extra thoughtss on doing this, with the intention of getting 30-35000 psi with regular thickness shot gun barrels.When you start pushing
1500 gr bullets you have to use a mor progressive
slower powder which means a lot longer higher pressure curve.Thin shotgun barrels like .92 OD
at muzzle for 12 ga will unglue.And you can't stay with Bullseye type fast powders for that heavy a bullet, as increasing charge would unglue
even a heavy barrel at breech, even in McBros
action.This cartridge with real good 1500gr
penetrating heavy bullets, will have to be loaded
with rifle type powders, thus needing big bore
rifle barrels, with enough steel in them for
safety.Like 1.4 in breech min and 1.2 in min muzzle.Got to have wt anyway.Ed.

As the dangerous game 'ball and shot' gun angle would appeal to me the most what would it take then to get a double smoothbore happening in 12ga from hell?Or even one barrel rifled/ one smooth.
Loads around 1500fps with 1500gn slug or a 3.5" 12ga shell from shoulder fired double.

Cheapest or easiest approach?

Karl.

You guys are like mad scientists, bloody love it . Beats looking at porn sites all day.

To what velocity will the 12 GA From Hell push the 1500 grainer? MAX load? And with the 2000 grainer?
The only bad thing with the 12 GA FH is that there is no expanding bullets for it. So it will just make the same wound as a 12 GA shot gun slug. But it will penetrate much deeper (If you are going to use it on buff)

Is it possible to shoot shot loads with the rifle?? what velocity and shot weight?

Thanks!
//OK

Just for the record, I mistakenly thought this thread was a SERIOUS discussion about making 12-bore double rifles! My mistake.

I naively assumed that a 12-bore double rifle would toss the Fosbery-style 750-grain projectile out at about 1400 fps max, a 700-grain hollow-point perhaps a little faster. I had also assumed that barrels with larger breech-diameter than 1.225" would not be needed, since they would then have to be turned down anyway to fit them SxS on a 10-bore action.

But hell, what do I know! 1500 to 2000-grainers at 1500 fps, at 35,000 psi. Yippee! Pass me another spliff!

What in the hell is a spliff?

Overkill-With a BMG bolt action 2000 gr should
get 18-2000 fps, 1500gr get 25-2700.The chamber
will be set up to use 3.5 in shotshells

Marrakai-We are trying to make shooting
interesting!If we hunt around I think we will
find big enough singles and doubles.Or make
them.And bolt actions of course.If a person wanted to shoot 500 to 800 gr
bullets at lower presures, they could take the
heavier built 3.5 in 12 ga and deepen chamber for
our brass design and go to loading.Brass should last forever.You would use slowest powder out there, to keep pressures around 15,000.Don't load
with airspace, but use 12 ga felt wads, using
fewer wads as you increased charge.Be an interesting load developement.Ed.

First of all 35KPSI loads in this thing with 2000 gr bullets should be trivial. About 330 grs of H50BMG will do that NO PROBLEM. Velocities of around 1500-2000 fps should be easy to obtain. With a Sabot you could probably hit WARP SPEED! The issue will be barrel diameter and an action big enough for it. That's the problem. I am deeply concerned about what would happen if somebody simply took a 10 ga NEF single Shot Shotgun cut off the 10 ga barrel and threaded the block for a 12 Ga From Hell barrel. It could undoubtably be made to fit, but would the action take it? I don't know!
The only really safe way I can think of for this is to use a McMillan .50BMG action with a special bolt adapted for the rimmed case and appropriate modifications to the extractor and barrel. This I know will work safely!-Rob

Oh! Since I have random p-testing, I don't mess with anything that may turn up positive.

Searcy falling block is $4500 just for the action. Puts it a little out of my price range. I think this is going to become one of those very expensive projects. I have a single project budget right now, was thinking of a big bore on my 1917 action but after that was nixed I thought this would be fun, but I do believe this will go well beyond my $3000 budget. I still would like something in the middle of this, If I can get 1500grs at 1600fps I would be happy. But if we need an action that it alone is more than my total budget I may have to bow out here.

Marrakai

How are you going to rifle the end? It is my understanding that the Brits used a very tight choke and then rifled that. Getting deeper as it approached the end.

Why not a full rifled shotgun barrel that is then bored out to the rifling?

I have a 10 bore Holland Paradox and a 20 Bore WR Faunetta. The WR is a hell of chukar and skeet setup and the H&H shoots a 1000 grn bullet at 1200fps. Should do the job on a Buffalo for sure.

I think that some of the posters here are examples of the adage about scrambled brains never healing. I would love to see some of these things shot.

At .729" it wouldn't have to expand!
My budget is limited at the moment, but I'll have to get a barrel while the run is being done. I'll probably build my own falling block for it. It would be nice to do a double on a 10ga though. I wonder what kind of performance could be obtained from 24" bbls sleeved into a monoblock on my big 10ga, chopper lumps, and greener cross bolt??? I would think a 1500 at 1500 would kill most anything. Maybe not a frontal brain shot on Jumbo though.
This would be like THOR's Hammer!!

How much powder will it take to get a 1500 grn bullet moving at 1500fps? Sounds alot like BPBB's type of rifle.

Mickey--If we get Pacnor barrels rifled, they will be rifled full length.What is the barrel
diameter of your 10 ga H&H at breech.Are they steel or damascus.To get a 1500 gr to 1500 fps
just about a full case of slow BMG powder.If long
bullet is seated normal debth, that would be about
250-270 gr.

LAR--Your right about diameter already built in,
so expansion isn't the main need, penetration is.
And a 1500 grain will go in 5 times further than a
500gr regular shotgun slug.Especially if velocity is 1500 or more.What is the breech diameter of your 10 ga double with greener cross bolts.Is
it steel or damascus?

And another thing that could be done with these
10 ga reworked with as thick a barrel as could be gotten into them, even though they may have to be held down in pressure, would be to use a 900gr,
600NE bullet, in a good sabot. Even staying at lower presures like 15-22000 psi you could easily
get that 900 gr out faster than original
cartridge could.There is a lot of ways to have
a powerful double, that could still go birding
with 3.5 in shotshells.Ed.

The chamber wall thickness is .176", between both chambers is .393", total outside is 2.483".

It is Steel. It says Z.H." made in Spain, model G-1032, 10ga 3 1/2" magnum.
It looks to be a well made gun, the lock up is very tight, it is engraved and looks good to me.

this book I bought about building double rifles on shotgun actions had step by step directions on building your own mono block to fit barrels to. It looks doable if I take my time. Maybe keep the 10ga barrels and build a set of rifled barrels to go with it?

Or find/ build some 10 ga brass and fit the gun with rifled choke tubes?

I originally picked up this 10ga with the thought of doing my 470 project on it, but it really is large and heavy, so I picked up a Belgian 12ga instead that I'm working on now. It has chopper lumps and Greener crossbolt also.

I almost built some 470 bullets today. I sized some copper tubeing down in a collet, then fluxed and poured with wheel weights. I still need to make a nose forming die, but it looks like it might work. The last one I polished over size. Guess I shouldn't work when I'm tired? I'm going to mill one in half and see if the jacket bonded with the core. I'm not looking for anything fancy, maybe a .4" meplat flatpoint, and .4" nose?
Maybe something similar could be done for 12ga jacketed slugs?

My 10ga action:

Mickey wrote:
"How are you going to rifle the end? It is my understanding that the Brits used a very tight choke and then rifled that. Getting deeper as it approached the end.

Why not a full rifled shotgun barrel that is then bored out to the rifling?"

I have two options for rifling the chokes of ordinary 12-bore barrels to make a paradox. The first is to set up a rotary carbide burr on a lathe and cut a large number of rounded rifling grooves, similar to the Rem-choke rifled choke. The second is to make a broach and cut square rifling (probably 7 wide grooves). The first is the cheapest option by far, but not really "pukka". I'm still weighing options. Believe it or not, the best (thickest) and cheapest barrels for this are Baikal single-shot tubes!

The ER Shaw barrels were bought with the intention of reaming out the rifling except for the last 2 inches or so. Because of the above two options, they have now become available for a 12-bore double rifle project!

For all those contemplating the "single-barrel from Hell" option, might I suggest the Greener GP takedown. A monster rifled barrel could be screwed in without affecting the original firearm. Martini actions are plenty strong enough for this. GP Greeners typically sell for 350 to 400 ozzie dollars over here, I bought one recently for the purpose of testing various styles of rifled-choke barrels for accuracy before committing to a double. A couple of 'distractions' have intervened, however I should have something to report in a couple of months.

Remember the .50 BMG case is 3.9 inches long and with a bullet in it figure 4.6-4.7 inches COL. You have to be able to lever it into an action for loading! Can you get a cartridge that long into a Martini? The 10GA shotgun with that Greener crossbolt is interesting. I have to do the calculations, but instinct tells me that I would want at least .300-.350 of steel around the chamber. That would suggest a minimum barrel diameter of 1.4-1.5 inches. This is based on the major thread diameter of the .50 BMG barrels I have made. Two of these barrels would get mighty heavy mighty fast!-Rob

Rob-Marrakai--Always liked looks of a Martini-
Be nice deal if big enough.Marrakai, what is the
barrel thread diameter of the GP? Rob if this
action would work for size it would be good to
35-40,000. With right loadings you would still have as much energy as OK and others in the
600 range.Ed.

Will this be able to knock moose over?

Okay..
I FINALLY have a lever action that would be suitable for dangerous game...

think this would take the 12 gfh barrels?

winchester 10 ga....

jeffe

Mickey-That is a hairy 10 ga.Thicker barrels
at the breech than any others I have seen.
That standing breech might work for a monoblock to be built to have the heavy barrels screwed into.

Jeffe-Never thought of that action.Can it handle the length of about 4.6 in.Ed.

Ed,
I think it maxes out at 4"... so, i;ld have to cut my brass down .5,,,, like that would matter for case capacity...

jeffe

Jeffe-What is diameter of barrel threads.
Making cases any length is real easy with
BMG cases with rims on.Not like working on the old fragile cases...12GA Short From Hell.
Has a good ring to it also.If it would take big barrel, we could find out how good that Winnie
is made.Ed.