Yes George and a whole bunch here needs to change.Even you a little.This forum is important to me and others.I can't even get on half the time as service is so bad, let alone know if when I post a message,
my posts are working.And then to have all the crap
and fighting.I have folks I want to help as well as get
my stuff promoted..I think as standup folks we all should
put up who we are.(Ed Hubel-Brinton, MI, 1-989-644-5228)There is a lot of info here, a lot of good big bore
cartridge developement, a lot of hardworking gun nuts that for their own benefit, as well as readers, should be together.George needs to hear from us privately, not public
in your face style. Scott needs a little perspective in
realizing some of his ideas may not set the world on fire.
Pecos needs to realize that a 7.62 Russian case straightened
into a 411 wildcat is no reason to unload on the poster
who put the idea up.I mean it makes more sense than the stupid 260 Rem!!!!Folks..Gentlemanly Perspective...Gentlemanly actions...Christ we have a
chance to set the big bore world on its ear, with some of the developements here, and we crucifying each other...Ed.

Have lost their stiff upper lip, so to speak.

Don't need trolls. but they are here, so ignore them.

You can correct them without name calling.

Don't need troll hunters, as that allows the other problem to feed.And we shouldn't have polls about trolls.

And the turmoil allows axegrinders, pissed at

other members about political issues, pissed at this country

over the war, envious of others accomplishments on the

forum to create turmoil, Ie screw us over one said.

Suggestions are George pull the troll alert. Troll hunters

forget about trolls. And the hardheads go to the stiff upper lip mode. Those who have accomplished things on here shouldn't lower themselves to troll hunt, as plays into the trolls and axegrinders game. The same standards of gentlemanly behavior. manners, civility,

should be used here, as you use on the hunting and shooting

fields......please...Ed.

Ed,



Wise words, but they are a wait of your time I am afraid. The simple truth, I fear, is that the majority of high profile posters here like to troll / troll hunt.



For instance, they continue to call me a liar, yet I have NEVER done 99.99% of the things they accuse me of. For instance I have never posted a load which was DANGEROUS in my rifle ( your rifle is another beast so down load 10% from my max ). I have NEVER posted a picture of a rifle, which was not mine. I admit to borrowing pictures of MY rifles from other's websites, but that was because I did not have a digital camera to take pictures with at that time.



Go ahead Ed, I challenge you, find a post of ScottS or ToddE(dated before July 2002) in which I posted dangerous loads, pictures of rifles which were not mine, or any general bullshit period! There is one exception, I did post some information about "fully" annealed cases in the 30-06 and 416 Rigby. This was part of a little war Mike375 and I had going at the time. It was a stunt, and yes I did it, and I do not recommend anyone else do it . Kinda like jumping 20 cars with a motorcycle, it can be done, but is not adviseable. In the old days we jawed about the double rifles, had some real good arguments too. We spoke about wood selection for a big bore and proper layout. We discussed loads, and bullet performance, etc, etc.



Then George showed up and the 45-70 debacle began. Well shortly there after the troll wars started. The last 18 months to 2 years has been a significant waste of time and band width around here.



This is the last I intend to speak on this matter, with one exception. I shall start a new thread to "tongue and cheek" a smart ass bit of information to Mike375 regarding the ingore feature.



Scott

what trolls? I only see and read info usefull or involve a subject I enjoy BIG BORE RIFLES! I refuse to read nonsense or at least respond to it! I shouldnt answer this post but I think the forum will be ruined if more dont do the same. If it isnt a question or a post involving the forum dont type an answer!
Dean

The thing is we don't like stunts.Using other pictures are fine, just say they are other pics.Like pic I posted of Borchardt action, I stated I took it from their brochure,
not that I had one.And if you think George is all the fault for what is happening, I think it is both of your faults,
as well as others on here;
Ie not willing to make allowances for each other.Stiff
upper lip , gentlemen, you know.

Suggestions are George pull the troll alert.

That was put to GeorgeS on day one. But he insisted starting, maintaining and promoting a forum war.

Mike

Ed, they ARE my rifles. The pictures were/are on these websites for advertising purposes. My 500 is still on Ed Plummers site.

I agree with tonto, enough of this blathering BS. Let us ALL get back to the topics of this forum. BIG BORE RIFLES! Bore meaning diameter of the hole in the barrel that bullets come out of.

Scott

Ed

I don't agree, GeorgeS has to be judged on the grounds of being a forum leader/moderator.

The facts are that on AR he can't edit/delete and the position of forum leader is to keep things moving along...well I guess he has done that

In the last few pages of threads he has only started two threads, one about trolls and other thread that is now mostly troll related.

He also continues in his pursuit of generating this type of activity by his new signature line. He endorses and promotes such activity and that is a fact.

Mike

Mike- He shouldn't have done it, But the way you responded
to it is the main cause of the trouble we now have.You and we could have worked with George to change it, but you went into ballistic confrontational mode.I am sorry you are so sour about things and some folks here, But you are just screwing it up for yourself and the rest of us.
George and troll hunters; who gives a rats ass about
those who do the stunts..Forget them..Mike and others defending trolls, your motives(free speech??) are suspect when terms like " screw up the forum " or similiar get
used by you...

IT STLL GOES BACK TO BEING GENTLEMEN.....

Like a couple fellas who put themselves out to get me some Nyati brass from AUS.Or jeffe and Rob getting brass orders organized.Or RNS doing the legwork for developing 550 mag.Or me putting my wildcats on the back burner to help out a couple fellas with theirs.And many others helping many others..Ed.

Ed,



The facts are that George loves rules, regulations and decorum. Under his watch the HA Africa forum went deader than dead. The whole concept of posting a troll list has got problems because of both accuracy and currency and doubly so when George is well known as a person who can't spot a multi identity poster. His very attitude plus actions will turn this place into a honey pot for the multi identities.



But my bet is that this time around will end all troll hunting for quite a long time.



George needs to remember that he is forum moderator. For about 1 week I was moderator on the Political forum but with some prompting from others it was only too obvious that my outspoken ways did not go hand in hand with being what amounts to Saeed's representative and so I resigned the position.



Also note that George has kept this going and as a moderator of the forum that means he is endorsing such activity.



In short he has started it and had a couple of his assistants lend him a helping hand at keeping it going.



He is the Forum Leader and it is up to him to end it and if he can't or won't do that then he should resign as Forum Leader.



Mike

You going to spend from now to whenever making sure George backs down in a public, in your face way?? INTERESTING.
That ain't helping you or us or the forum. Makes it seem that you are as bad as George, the trolls, and the troll hunters.We should work behind the scenes to stop this.Ed.

Ed,

You are forgetting something.

I think you would agree that GeorgeS needs to change his signature line...do you agree with that?....then if so how can he do that in private....it is not possible.

If he does change it I am more than happy to make no comment but of course I can't speak on behalf of ScottS or others.

But I think the objective has probably been achieved and that is there will be no more troll hunts etc and especially hunts sponsored and endorsed by the forum leader.

But again, nothing can be done without George changing his signature line...unless you can think of something else.

Mike

Ed,

That is all and good but GeorgeS has just made a couple of postings and has retained his signature line so one must assume he wants an ongoing confict while at the same time endorsing troll type postings and personal abuse postings. Well he can certainly be accommodated

Mike

This is for George.......Did you get my PM????
When someone asked you to close the Troll alert thread, why close the thread that he asked you to do it on.And leave the alert thread up...Mike please don't answer on this.Ed.

hubel458,

It is very refreshing to see someone post a message based on common sense.

I agree with you entirely. Thank you very much my friend.

We should all go back to talking Big Bore Rifles. Anyone who wishes to talk trash is welcome to our Trash Forum. I did not wish to call it that, but as I think all politics is trash, I called it the Political Forum.

Saeed--They say you pay for this place on the net.Well I
think it is denigrating to you and your moderators who represent you, to have such emphasis put on a few
verbiage enhanced, nitwits, though the troll alert deal.
You just made the trolls more important than you or me.
I want this forum to be about big bore developement, big guns, and folks working together to get that.Send me a bill for what this forum costs as part of what you pay, and get rid of troll hunting and get folks in a less anarchistic mode.I have so much trouble getting service on here.And don't need the crap.Get rid of the troll alert.And to have it that way send me a bill.I already support a site trying to promote a shooting sports TV network.Again the alert
has made the trolls more important than the forum and us on here trying to accomplish something good.I am offering to pay for big bore forum so as to have it for. big bore
discussion and developement.No more crap.Ed.

Since all these "rifles" you blather about are supposedly yours, Scott, it should be a small matter for you to stack them on your old table and photograph them for us, instead of cutting and pasting stolen pictures from the internet and claiming they are yours.

And could we see some pictures of all the buffalo and bison you've slain with those "brain pan" shots you are such a master of?

Surely a world class hunter as yourself has at least stopped during the cranage long enough to have your photo taken standing triumphantly over the fallen?

In short, Scott, just shut us all up at one stroke. Take us on a little photo tour of your vast reloading room. Show us all your lathes and wonderful gun building machinery. Drag out those priceless rifles with which you've slain everything that breaths.

In other words, Scott, Todd E, Mauser, Judy, TEG, AXEL, whoever you are playing tonight........do what everyone has been telling you for over a year.......PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
---------------------



I'll tell you boys what. It ain't any accident this ScottS fellow is on the front row crying for everyone to get off of the Trolls. HE IS ONE! Know what I mean?

Pecos--i know you mean well but the troll fighting
is ruining what others here are trying to get done.IE
develope big bore cartridges and rifles.The influence
trolls have had here was about 2%, but fighting them, and
getting others who have anarchistics tendencies involved
has made the troll influence about 92%.Ed.

Ed
I know what you are saying. I come to this forum to learn about big bore rifles, not experience the troll wars. I have been about ready to leave AR all together because of the fighting and go some where else. I hate seeing a good thread hijacked.

Mike375,
George has changed his signature line. I just read one of his latest posts.

Thanks Ed....I agree with you completely. We seem to go through this every 12 to 18 months or so. I haven't gotten involved this time but have tried to help out here in the past (with little success). It is unfortunate that some people here are bound and determined to throw grease on a fire to put it out (that includes forum members on both sides of the issue).

The facts are plain and simple....

Internet squabbles are not like interpersonal issues. They don't go away if you fight harder and get nastier, they get worse. You can't win an argument over someone that may or may not exist, and can't be held accountable for their actions either way. They have nothing to lose and are just going to drag you down with them.

When you find you are stuck in hole, quit digging.

I am always amazed at how much time and effort people will make to try and win an unwinnable argument with someone they don't know and will never meet. I am envious in some ways...I wish I had that much free time, and so little stress in my daily life that I could take on a bunch more here!

FWIW,
Canuck

Ed
I agree with you.
Let me know when you get the brass.