This is just for interest sake. While up at the cabin my buddy and I thought we would blast some yellow cedar with some different calibers and bullets just to compare the differences. I had my 300 Winchester and 45-70 and Chris had his 300 Short Mag. I was shooting Sirrocco 165 grain bullets in the 300 and 405 Remingtons plus some 405 grain cast bullets in the 45-70. Chris was shooting 165 Fail Safes in his 300 Short Mag. Velocities were aprox. 3250 for the Sirroccos, 3100 for the Fail Safes, 1850 for the Remington 405's and 1300 for the cast bullets. Here are the results.
The 405 Remington channel and penetration:

The Sirrocco channel and penetration:

The Failsafe channel and penetration:

The cast bullet channel and penetration:


All the bullets were shot at point blank and these are the bullets themselves. The 405 Remington was seperated by myself trying to pry it out.
405 Remington:

The 165 Sirrocco:

The 165 Fail Safe:

The Cast 405 by Bullet Barn:


I had read on a post that someone was dissapointed with the Sirrocco's coming apart on deer so I was wondering if I had made a mistake choosing this bullet. Now I just wonder what kind of deer this person was shooting at. To put this in some perspective, I shot a nice buck with the 45-70 at 65 paces with a front on chest shot and it penetrated and was sitting just under the hide ahead of the hind quarter. Thought you might find this interesting.
Take good care,
Dave

Well Dave no matter what conclusions people draw from this, it looks like you had fun. The deer at 65 paces... what projectile did you use, what was the aprox impact velo, and aprox penetration?
Thanks dave.

I'm really impressed by the Scirroco...

The Failsafe was predictable- it looks exactly the same as most Failsafes I've shot.

Cast bullet lookss like it penetrated well but there was little wound channelupset. Of course, it's already almost half an inch

Hi Smallfry,
I used the 405 Remington in my 45-70 with a muzzle velocity of 1850. the penetration would have been 28 to 30 inches. This post is just for interest sake. You can sure see the difference in the channels between the Sirrocco and the Fail Safe which explains the obvious difference in penetration. The hard cast bullet is interesting because it acted as a solid and penetrated the deepest. We shot some blocks with a 44 mag at the range also and the penetration of the hard cast bullet was about the same as a hot loaded 44 mag with a bullet that acted as a solid also. It deffinately makes getting the firewood in more interesting.
Take care,
Dave

Dave,
thanks for sharing.. these are GREAT pictures....

heh... did you say the 45/70 CAST acted like a solid? bot, are you stirring the pot

jeffe

Well done, 470Mbogo. I'd love to see such tests using a variety of popular African big bores and bullets. This wood appears to be an excellent medium. Thank you!

Dave:

Got to love the 45-70 as it is a lot more impressive than most people realize. Hardcast bullets have been used and experimented extensively in the sixgun community so there is really nothing new under the sun. It is even amazing to see some of the big bore handgun calibers out penetrate some of big bore rifle cartridges. Thanks for the report.

That Scirocco is impressive.

John Barsness in this month's Handloader says that, of the three mainstream bonded bullets--the Scirocco (Swift), the InterBond (Hornady) and the AccuBond (Nosler), the Scirocco and InterBond are softer than, and don't penetrate as much as, the AccuBond. The AccuBond is supposed to penetrate more deeply, like a Partition.

But clearly for deer/common plains game, the Swift looks like it would be a great bullet.

Thanks for posting these very interesting pictures and report.

The 180 gr Failsafe would have been a much better one to test for penetration in 30 caliber.

Did the Failsafe veer off course or did you shoot it at that angle. that would tell me something about the failsafe and all monolithics as I know they sometimes do not go straight and thats a no no in my books.

Hi Ray,
My buddy shot the Failsafe from his gun and I didn't think he had his barrel straight on at the shot. I have all the bullets and will post the remaining weight of them tomorrow. I also have the 405 Remington that I shot the deer with and it looks awesome. That 45-70 hit hard enough on a frontal chest shot that the deer only went ten feet and was down and out.
Take care,
Dave

I cleaned up the bullets, weighed and measured them to their widest points. The results are:
165 grian Sirocco weighed 156.5 grains max width .740
165 grain Fail Safe weighed 161.5 grains max width .578
405 Remington weighed 388 grains max width 1.01
405 Cast bullet actually weighs 397 grains new and the recovered bullet weighed 376 grains max width .447
The 405 Remington recovered from the deer weighed 398 grains max width .819

Take care,
Dave

I'd heard the same about Scirrocos breaking up, but find it hard to believe after seeing these photos - pretty impressive.

Nice wood work! All we need now is wood........game!
I know you guys saw that one coming.......Now the real trick is to make a table & matching chairs.......Now that's wood work......One shot at a time.

Nice wood work! All we need now is wood........game!
I know you guys saw that one coming.......Now the real trick is to make a table & matching chairs.......Now that's wood work......One shot at a time.

No wonder Jim Carey can't find work

[ 11-26-2003, 06:17: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

Great stuff Dave! Those pictures turned out even better than I imagined from your description.

You might want to add a page to your website for miscellaneous bullet and penetration stuff.

Cheers,
Canuck

excellent post and pics hats off to you.
I have been loading my handcast hard cast for my 375 win and 45/70.every deer that I have shot with my bullets has never been recovered.broad side shots.I am still trying to take a deer this year with my 405's in the 45/70 marlin LTD maybe this weekend.
thanks for a fine test.
pete