I sized a few cases and loaded them.

71gr of 4064 according to "Any Load You Want" is supposed to be good for close to 2200fps. They suggest 3.53" oal. This leaves the cannelure on Woodleigh 400gr solids about 1/8th of an inch out of the case mouth.

Any thoughts on seating it deeper and crimping lightly in the cannelure groove?

thanks,

Rich

Rich,

As you say, crimp in the cannelure, that is the way I do it with Woodleighs, and it produces great accuracy.
The standard 404 Jeffery throat,
saved before Alf "." deleted it:



That is the simple drawing. CIP spec is same IIRC. Throat is a wide-funnel leade that tapers pretty quickly, zero parallel-sided free-bore.

Your load is pretty anemic, going for classic/nostalgic instead of modern ballistics?

Rich,

Like my older brother, I always crimp Woodleighs in the provided cannelure. If it seems like you have excess air space; just add a bit of foam.

Ron,

Thanks for the picture!

'dart

Over the years the only powder I have been satisfied with in the 404 is IMR-4831. 95 grs. has always been max in my guns and really cooks..
My hunting loads have been 90 to 93 grs for 2400 plus..I seat and crimp bullets in the cannalure for one reason only and thats to keep them in place, however thats just a precaution and I have not had any set backs when I seated them to fit the magazine and throat with or without a crimp..

That said, and if accuracy is a problem I have to say the longest shot I ever took with my 404 on DG was about 125 yards as I recall, and I have shot a few deer and elk at beyond that a bit with no problems..you need to shoot your gun and determine if it will work without a cannalure...None of my 404 showed any accuracy problems either way, at least not at the 100 yard range.

One thing that I have done is turn the expander ball down on my drill press or on a lathe several thousands, a thousand at a time for a tight bullet fit, then with 4831 filling the case to half way up the neck, I get a light crush and the bullet stays put.

It works on bolt guns that take a pounding on the bullet nose..However this bullet set back occurs mostly on cull hunts wherein the PHs are shooting one round and then loading and shooting one round over and over agin. The rounds in the bottom take a terrific beating over the course of the cull and perhaps longer than that, and they get set back from time to time I understand, so I'm not too concerned about that considering we, as hunters use our guns differently.

Bu its a good practice to crimp in the cannalure if you plan to hunt DG. At the very least it can't hurt..

I crimp in the cannalure of my 404 Jeffery bullets to keep them from moving while being bounced around in the magazine! I try not to use a "Heavy" crimp.

Now this is just my way, but I keep my velocity around the historical Cordite loading of 2125 FPS. I'm not shooting thick skinned dangerous game.

Just a warning. You can load the 404 Jeffery up to a point of where it "kills" on both ends!

thanks to both of you gentlemen. I hope to return to Africa (RSA) next summer for Leopard and Eland, along with a few smaller antelope. I have been told that my resume is incomplete without an Impala and Warthog.

my thanks again,


Rich
404J and a 257 Roberts...

Everyone agrees, crimp on the cannelure.
There is not much room to do anything else.
No need to seat out.
I am going to check the 404 Jeffery History thread to make sure these drawings are posted there.

Here is the CIP throat:



CIP shows an odd groove and bore diameter (.418" and .412") that does not match the .422" bullet diameter they show.

Dave Manson reamer throat is same as CIP but it it works in the usual bullet and barrel specs accepted as modern now: .423" bullet diameter and groove diameters of .423" to .425".
Note Manson quotes the bore diameter of a Krieger barrel, for piloting purposes.
Krieger groove diameter is .424".

Barrel groove diameters:

.423" groove: Pac-Nor and Lothar Walther
.424" groove: Krieger
.425" groove: McGowen



Ray gets high velocities/pressures with IMR4831 in a tight barrel of .423" groove and traditional twist, I reckon.

I have to use RL-15 or Varget to get pressure and velocity up in my McGowen barrels with 1:10" twist. They slugged at 0.4245" groove, nominal .425".

Tighter barrels will give higher pressures and velocities.
What I got with the McGowen 24" barrel starting loads,
400 grain Woodleigh RNSN (Weldcore), COL about 3.500" or whatever they are when crimped on the cannelure,
Norma brass, GM215 primer from Federal:

H4831SC 88.0 grains >>> 2162 fps
H4350 85.0 grains >>> 2276 fps
RL-15 72.0 grains >>> 2120 fps (your powder lot may be different)
Varget 72.0 grains >>> 2125 fps (85% load density estimated)

Worked upward to:
Varget 81.0 grains >>> 2401 fps (95.3% load density estimated)

My rifle was chambered with a Manson reamer.

WILDCATS RELOADED
Certifying Body: R.I.P.

thanks RIP!

I use RL-15, aka Norma 203B, plus foam plug I use in my 450/400 3 inch loads. Felt recoil is reduced. I use Federal 215s.

Woo-Hoo! The barreled action is enroute. Maybe tomorrow...

not, but taking y'alls advice I seated the bullet in the cannelure. Both the AA and van der Walt's book say 3.53" but the loaded round mikes3.389" now.