Please, please don't start flaming me over this question. It is an honest question and I know how most people on this board feel about CZ's, but has anyone else found a lot of variability in their quality?

I only own a couple and, frankly, it's not because I haven't tried. I keep reading glowing reports about them, but that hasn't been born out by most of the guns I have seen. This isn't a big area for them and most dealers don't carry them, but I have handled probably 20-30 of them over the last two years. I bought the only two which I thought were well built rifles (a CZ527 in 7.62x39 and a .22). These guns were incredible with some of the nicest wood I have ever seen and really nice metal work. Most of the others varied from ho-hum to milky sapwood along with some really indifferent metal finishing. Just a couple of weeks ago I was in Jaquas in OH and looked at a 375. Pretty plain (which I expected) but with really, really average metalwork.

I know I haven't seen a lot of these, but I believe I have examined enough to be representative. In my estimation I would put their material and finish quality about that or slightly below a Model 77. Is there a lot of variation between guns that would account for this, or is their reputation based primarily on function and not finish?

Let the beating of the infidel begin!!!

I've seen some variation in quality, but I've only seen maybe 15 guns total.

The one pet peeve I have with the 550s is that the front of the rear bridge tends to be roughly machined. It's very visible and looks bad.

Best,
Joe

Art S--

I've been looking at a bunch of them lately.

They ARE crudely finished, but the good news is that they're crude because EXTRA metal was left.......not crude Like a Ruger that had too much taken away.

The CZ can be fitted and finished to be a VERY nice rifle. If an action starts out life without enough metal to fit well and *then* more metal is subtracted by bad polishing, the gun is essentially ruined before it's ever shot.

I MUCH prefer to have extra material to shape and polish into a nice rifle, but I understand the wish to spend money on something that looks better. In that case buy a very early M-77, Pre-64 M-70, or old FN. They are MUCH better fitted and finished than anything on the market now... The CZ CAN be finished to match the old ones but it takes money.

Art- With all due respect, What is your Point?I don't know what your expecting, but for $600 or so ,What is out there that you think is actually better?As for variability in Quality, in fact the CZ's seem the most reproducible and reliably accurate! I've also handled about 20 magnums in the last 2 years and all have seen to me to be pretty much the same!Have you looked at a recent magnum M70 or M700? I've got a couple of custom magnum mausers built by Big Name Gunsmiths which won't feed worth a crap and which I had to fix myself costing 10 X what a CZ550 does!
I'd be darn hard pressed to say that the QUALITY of a M77 in .416 Rigby at $1200 is any better than a CZ550 in .416 Rigby at $600. Certainly the fit and finish are really not dramatically different!The Ruger stocks are not a bit better IMHO than the CZ550 either. In fact, the Ruger trigger while simplier is just as bad as a CZ's. However, The CZ550's all seem to actually feed the cartridges their chambered for unlike the Model 70's and some M77's that have passed through my hands. In fact, the two CZ550'sI've recently bought for their actions alone were pretty nice and shot MOA groups. Yes the stocks are Ho Hum, but I'm not aware of anyone selling exhibition grade walnut for $600.
As far as the actions go, for the price , a CZ550 beats a Olympic Arms (crude as a cob) and is certainly directly comparable to a MRC Magnum. In fact, when you really compare a CZ to a Granite Mouintain or Vektor or Johansen(all big buck magnum mausers), It's damn hard to justify the difference in cost( 3x-4x). I own all of the above and have played with them extensively, so I feel this is a valid opinion! Yes , the CZ has a cheesy trigger mechanism, a crappy bolt handle, cheesy laser engraving and is a little more limited in the maximal width obtainable in widening the action rails, but these failings are almost all fixable ( even the rail width by using a custom Magazine).
With a CZ550 you have a inexpensive route into some serious Big Bores like the 458 Lott, 500 A2, 585 NYATI, 600 OK etc. See if you can get there with a M70 or a M77 and if so ,at what price?
No flame intended, but for the price the CZ550 magnum mauser is an absolute steal. I'd stock up on every one you can lay your hands on, because these guys at CZ are gonna up their price one of these days.-Rob

JBelk

The CZ527 I have is a nice little gun except for the floorplate/clip. I have been thinking about buying a new floorplate and clip and having at a reshaping. It looks like the trigger guard extension could be reshaped to a normal configuration without affecting the clip action. It shouldn't be any harder than modifying the front of an M98 military guard. The clip itself has a simple bottom unit that slides onto two lips on the clip. These could be cut and reformed for a flush fit and a two or three round clip. I think it would improve the rifle dramaticallly. Have you seen anyone do this? I would try with the floorplate I have, except I would like to know I had a new one if I screwed up the old one.

Rob

Your post wasn't up when I made my last entry, so I missed it.

In answer to your question, I guess my point is that I don't see the big advantage to a lot of gun buyers in the CZ, based on the one's I have seen. As a custom action source, you are correct. But 90% of the questions on "which gun to buy" are from somebody who wants to buy a funtional rifle for a couple of backyard hunts a year and still look nice enough to feel good about. The pat answer always seems to be "CZ". However, it seems like this answer is then always supported by the number of great things one can do to improve it, at only a couple of times the cost of the base rifle. This is not what most people are asking. Based on most of the guns I have seen, and judging them as factory guns, I don't discern a lot of difference between them and the other guns which are regularly trashed.

As to the comment about exhibition walnut, that is what really triggered the question. The little CZ527 I bought actually does have what I would consider an exhibition blank, and Lord knows I have thrown enough money at them in my life to know what one looks like. The same is true of the .22 I bought. Some manufacturers(like Browning) are famous for shoveling some extra nice wood into the first of a model run to build the guns reputation, but I don't think that happened here. This made me think that maybe the dealer I have that carries CZ's is getting slighted by the distributor and the average CZ may be better than I was seeing.

I would have to say to that I disagree about the Rugers. The std M77 is pretty average, but most of the Magnums and the std size (Safari Grade?) I have seen are really nicely put together. I always thought this was because they were built in a different facility. I noticed in the ATF reports from the last couple of years that they had two rifle facilities. From the numbers built (a few hundred a year) it is obvious the high grade 77's are built in a custom shop. I can't remember the exact location, but Phoenix sticks in my mind.

By the way, looking at these lists surprised me. I hadn't realized that if you get a permit and manufacture even one firearm, you become a public part of the federal records. I was also surprised at just how many rifles Ruger makes and sells. They are really the big dog.

Art S- glad to know you got some good wood on your CZ. You be a lucky Guy! For the most part, I have been quite impressed with the wood on the average CZ550. I have a M77 .416 Rigby and frankly, The CZ wood is better as is the fit and finish. Both will shoot MOA, but I for one would much rather gunsmith the CZ.
The biggest factor in my mind is the reliability of a box stock CZ. When people ask me about buying a factory gun, the first thing that comes to mind is will it work. I'm reminded of a close friend who just bought a M70 that would not feed the first round in the mag and then porposed out number two. He sent it back to winchester and a few weeks later back it came now popping number one out of the rails. Waht he then did was trade it at the first Gunshow.
That kind of poor quality control doesn't seem to happen with CZ.
That's why I like em!-Rob

Art S - check this out for CZ 527 bottom work. Let me tell you, if I had the right equipment (and the knowledge I suppose ), I would be all over this modification. Judging by the looks of his finished product, it should be a much handier rifle than the original.

[ 04-18-2003, 00:46: Message edited by: DesertRam ]

My cz's are finished far better than my rem 700 vssf which cost twice as much and is half the rifle in my opinion. They are "custom in my eyes" and I know I have a 3 soon to be four rifles that as my income grows I will be able to really tweak them into works of art, despite the fact I am wrapt with them as they are now.

cz's owned are;

.416 Rigby (custom composite stock, polished railes and jewelled bolt)

.375 H&H bedded in devcon and floated to first lug.

.22 hornet no mods at all shoots great finished great.

9.3x62 On the way to my cabnit

You are missing out if you do not have a CZ 550 yet. There is nothing to loose for the CZ 550, as they in a decent quality and at a decent price. I have been pleased with all my CZ 550s. Good luck.

DesertRam

Many thanks. That's exactly what I am planning, so it looks like it is feasible.

I would make a couple of other changes. The front of the guard has plenty of metal to cut it into a normal curved shape and essentially eliminat the groove in the front of the guard. The groove appears to be there to reinforce the long clip and isn't needed with the short one.

I would not cut the reliefs in the clip bottom. The clip release could be shortened enough, I think, to work and stay above the magazine base.

I think the best solution might be to take a small piece of metal and make a permanent floorplate. The clip could then be cut to length, the shortened spring and follower inserted, and a false floorplate installed. You would then simply load from the top. I'm not a great clip fan anyway, but they seem unavoidable on European rifles.

By the way, back to variablility. I will try to post a picture of my CZ527. You wouldn't believe the quality and beauty of the wood on it. The finish, however, needs to be stripped and oiled.

Gents,

Don't mean to 'rub it in', but I have seen only 1 CZ - the one I own. It's a 550 FS in 9.3x62, and it's gorgeous. Oiled stock finish, fiddleback from buttplate to forend cap, and highly polished metal throughout. It appears well worth the under-$600 price I paid. The only things I don't like about it are the pointed bottom-rear corner of the cheekpiece and the ugly etched company logos on the receiver (I would have preferred simple tasteful stamped lettering). I haven't installed a scope and bench tested her yet, but she shoots where I point her with the open sights. I want to install an aperture sight but can't find anyone who makes one that doesn't require drilling (gasp!). Any ideas?

Live well

I've found the test targets indicate how good the rifle really is.

I do know they take their pistols, put em in an oil vat, cycle the action 500-1000 times to break em in,then box em.

That's why they shoot so well out of the box.

Don't know about the rifles.

The split stock complaints in large bore rifles is probably a result of the long shelf time of big bores, and the shipping, resulting in the stock shrinking away from the action. I would take all big bores to a gun smith first, and make sure the fit is tight.

By the way, I LOVE the CZ 550 triggers, and find them a major selling point. With minor honing, the set trigger gives you a match grade trigger, and a hunting trigger, on the same rifle. This saves you a LOT of money, putting in a custom trigger, like a jewel or Timmony.
Even the 22 triggers can be really cleaned up, and rival an expensive trigger. That's good, since last time I checked, no one made a match grade 22 trigger for the 452.

Prices on CZ rifles are going up. I've sent off a couple emails to CZ, and they are caught in the same oil inflation/shipping/insurance problems we all are, as is CZ USA.
s