Are there any manufactures who make a field grade double for less $10,000(US)? I was looking around on Searcy's site, and he comes pretty close. Is there anyone else out there?

I'm talking 470NE, 458 Lott, etc. NOT 45-70!

Thanks in advance . . .

Just my opine here TH, I'd go for the 470.

If I were you I'd do a search on GunsAmerica, the classifieds here and on the net for a used 470.
Merkel and Kreighoff make good rifles. I'd also call Butch Searcy and talk to him. Butch is a great guy.

Merkel, Chapuis and I think another American company called Evolution that is finishing Chapuis barreled actions here in the States.
Also SIACE from Italy.

I have a Merkel in .500 NE. Love it. You should check them out. I shot jjs' Merkel .470 and it felt as good as my .500, but it weighed more!

I will second Rusty. Call Butch. He is in a league of his own. If you get a rifle from him, he stands behind it 100%.

I know JudgeG has a Searcy and speaks highly of them, so does Ray.

Our Searcy .577 won't be finished until after the 1st of the year.

Teat Hound:

If you are in Bakersfield, CA, Butch is only a two hour drive for you.

I foresee a road trip in your future.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Teat Hound:

If you are in Bakersfield, CA, Butch is only a two hour drive for you.

I foresee a road trip in your future.

Does he do tours/visits? You might be right. It would be worth the drive just to see his rifles.

quote:

Does he do tours/visits?

Yep. Just call him and tell him you are thinking about a double and would like to stop by and talk to him more about it.

(But if he is working on Paul's .577 NE, don't bother him! It's our gun and it can't get here fast enough!!!)

Clark

Exactly what pattern of engraving did you and your dad choose for his Searcy 577?

475Guy:

We went with three Bulino scenes:

A Cape Buffalo on one sideplate; a rhino on the other. (The photo of the rhino I gave Ron Collings [Butch's engraver] is the same one I use here on AR.)

I wanted a "pissed off" looking rhino and I think I found it with this picture. I'm still trying to find a photo of a "charging Cape" that is a quartering towards shot--that is, a picture taken from the front but with a lot of the body in the frame.

On the bottom of the receiver we are getting an elephant.

The rest of the action is going to be done in English Rose and Scroll engraving. My father and I wanted something "elegant" and our opinion is that the English Rose and Scroll engraving his the mark.

I've also asked Ron to engrave "B Searcy & Co" in a ribbon embedded within the scroll and rose on both sides of the action.

When I get pics, you can be sure that I'll post them here. Also, Butch plans on bringing it to Reno in January.

Here is the picture that I sent Ron for the elephant:



Here is a better pic of the rhino:



Sorry for the thread hijack...!

That's cool. I hope the engraver can do the pictures justice. Looks like you guys have a lot of time to get loading componets and come with a load or two.

I hope the engraver dose a good job too! He said it should take him about 2 1/2 weeks to complete it if he does it all at once.

And yes, lots of time to work up loads and get all the toys needed to do it.

For under $10K, you have the following options in a real double (470 NE):

B. Searcy & Co. PH model: $9500
Merkel: $9K
Chapuis: $11K
Krieghoff: $9K (but it has a cocking piece instead of a safety, no it fits into the non-traditional category)
Sig S2 Blaser double: $8K (same category as Krieghoff, but worse)
Heym: $16K
Used doubles: $8K to $300K http://www.champlinarms.com

quote:

Originally posted by Teat Hound:

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Teat Hound:

If you are in Bakersfield, CA, Butch is only a two hour drive for you.

I foresee a road trip in your future.

Does he do tours/visits? You might be right. It would be worth the drive just to see his rifles.

I did it last month because I was working in Boron temporarily. Butch gave me a great tour and showed me how they did a lot of the work. You won't find a nicer guy than Butch.

Searcy and that's that!

.470 NE...

...Take my advice and go with the .470....Just when you think he's down - here he comes and you'd better have a quick and potent response....been there!

I agree that these instances are rare, but it only takes one time and you might buy the farm!

Jeff

The question is what do you want it for? If you need a stopping rifle fine, go with a 470 but if all you want is a double to shoot non-dangerous game look at the lighter calibers too like 9.3 x 74. Very common, decent resale and they have good killing power on game well over 1000 lbs and are much more fun to shoot day in and day out.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
For under $10K, you have the following options in a real double (470 NE):

B. Searcy & Co. PH model: $9500
Merkel: $9K
Chapuis: $11K
Krieghoff: $9K (but it has a cocking piece instead of a safety, no it fits into the non-traditional category)
Sig S2 Blaser double: $8K (same category as Krieghoff, but worse)
Heym: $16K
Used doubles: $8K to $300K http://www.champlinarms.com

500gr is probably right as to the price you may find a NEW Merkel 140.2 Safari 470NE being $9K, but the MSRP is $10,195.00!

The one thing you might look at is B.Searcy because he is the only maker who will chamber for 450/400NE 3", in the PH model it is an option, rather than a standard chambering. The 450/400NE 3" is a far more versatile round for general hunting, and is legal, and adiquate for all game. Searcy is the only maker who will make a rifle to fit you for a $10K price as well!

I would go for the Searcy and I think they are still $9500 in the PH model and thats a great gun....I, like Mac, love the 450-400 and so does anyone else thats used one, but the .470 is more powerful and more popular..My present Searcy is a .470, but I will buy a 450-400 as soon as Butch decides to make them on the smaller frame..and that should be within a year or two...

I like them all, but in this order:

1. Searcy (well enough to buy one)

2. Merkel (well enough to recommend one if price is right)

3. Chapuis (not well enough to buy anything French)

4. Kreighoff (well enough to use one on DG before using a bolt gun)

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I like them all, but in this order:

1. Searcy (well enough to buy one)

2. Merkel (well enough to recommend one if price is right)

3. Chapuis (not well enough to buy anything French)

4. Kreighoff (well enough to use one on DG before using a bolt gun)

Well said, Your Honor!

quote:

Originally posted by Teat Hound:

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Teat Hound:

If you are in Bakersfield, CA, Butch is only a two hour drive for you.

I foresee a road trip in your future.

Does he do tours/visits? You might be right. It would be worth the drive just to see his rifles.

You owe it to yourself to call to schedule an appointment to drive out and meet Butch. He's a really great no BS kinda guy and has a very good product.

But don't bring your check book unless your ready to buy, 'cause handling and firing one of his guns just might put a spell on you

And plan on lunch, the Mexican restuarent is quite good.

Roi

Teat Hound
I have fired 3 Chapuis 470's [I own a 9,3x74R]
3 Merkels, a 500, 470, and a 9,3x74R
1 Krieghoff 500/416
1 Searcy 500 Nitro.
All of them shot very well. I could hunt with any of them.
Buy the one that fits you the best.

However the BEST double rifle on the Planet for the Modern hunter just may be a British Double in one of the 450/400's.

Thanks boys! I think I'm going to have to fill up the dodge 4x4 and make a run to Boron.

Let's see, fall trip to Colorado, 2006 Alaska, 2007 Africa, double rifle . . . plus the annual boar/deer/black bear trips. Man, this sport costs more than golf! Oh well, I'll get over it.

(p.s. - don't tell Mrs. Teat Hound) ;-)

You will not be dissapointed!

And, you will have a rifle that actually fits you!

Jeff

I dont see people talk much about the Chapuis. Anyone have any feedback? I have never seen one other than in photos. I still do not understand why they leave the regulating wedge in the barrel. Makes the gun look unfinished in my opinion.

quote:

I still do not understand why they leave the regulating wedge in the barrel.

Roscoe:

My Merkel has the front wedge still sticking out barrels. NE450No2 told me that if you need to re-regulate your rifle, it is a lot easier to do it with that little piece still sticking out the front.

Personally, I think the Chapuis is too clumpy for me, particularly the front fore end. The ones I shouldered just didn't fit me right.

Butch makes it easy...I took the short drive from my house to meet with Butch.

Before measuring me for my 470 NE PH, I picked my wood, got the tour/explanation on his production from barrels, CNC work, hand fitting, wood/stock making and finishing and regulation at the range.

In addition, I received reloading advise, info on his regulation loads, info on practice loads,

My rifle will be done in March/April of 2006.

If you're looking for a Merkel, check Bass Pro Shops fine gun room, they have two Merkels in the $8500 range with fitted case, one in 500 and the other in 470 NE. I saw the 500 NE in Las Vegas BPS last week.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
I dont see people talk much about the Chapuis. Anyone have any feedback? I have never seen one other than in photos. I still do not understand why they leave the regulating wedge in the barrel. Makes the gun look unfinished in my opinion.

I've got 3, what would you like to know?

I'm afraid that it's mostly only searcys that get talked about on this board. Anything else one mentions quickly spirals into a you vs. the "searcy board."

They've been drinking the cool-aid here for so long that some even think they are better guns than Hartmann & Weiss, right Jeff?

New Guy,
I also am a Searcy fan, I have bought two of them in the past 6 years! My question about the Chapuis is as to their quality. I have never seen one and was curious what others thought. I would like to hear from people who have compaired them to other makers guns.

"iamgene"- CONGRATULATIONS!!! - good move!

New_Guy,

In all fariness to Chapuis - I have neither shot, nor inspected one of those rifles, thus can not and if you review any of my posts will not comment on these rifles.

But, given that the Searcy rifles are custom fitted for around the same price as the French guns - logic concludes that they are the better value. Fit afterall is one of the top criteria in selecting a rifle! Oh, and if you factor in dealer mark-up and the strong Euro - you're really not even in the same league.

As far as the "Cool-Aid" comment goes: If that is how you see it, fine - you are free to exercise your First Ammendment rights - that's the great thing about this forum!

Fact is: Butch Searcy not only builds these rifles, he takes them on Safaris, to comps & wins, refines and puts that practical "field" experience into his guns. I don't believe there are any folks from H & W or any other European rifle makers that go to that degree of comittment. That's one of the reasons we support Butch! Anybody with a reasonably skilled staff can make a gun look pretty, even near perfect. It's the performance, day in, day out that makes a great rifle - That's Searcy! - Correct me if I'm wrong.

There is no doubt that H & W rifles are ALL super fine guns - I'll never dispute that - But I'll bet you that Butch can equal them in a head to head Best of the Best shootout, and I mean shootout!



Jeff

I own a Searcy and I have shot 2 Chapuis rifles. Both Chapuis shot well. I have heard that they sometimes do not hold up well to a lot of shooting as they are built light, but I can't give any proof of that. Chapuis does recommend against using Barnes X in their rifles while Searcy says Barnes X are fine in his guns, so that might tell us that Searcy rifles are a bit more stout. As for fit, A standard Searcy rifle fits me better than a Chapuis. The only modification that I needed to get a standard Searcy stock to fit me was to specify length of pull. And it's true that Searcys shoot great.

If you are located in the U.S., one huge advantage of the Searcy is that if for any reason you break or damage it, or just want to have it modified (add ejectors, etc.), just ship it back to Buch and the whole process is easy. But try to ship a gun to France for repair and see how much fun the export/re-import process is.

Jeff, I was just pulling your leg. But as to the cool-aid comment, you have to admit that there's does seem to be a biased amount of support here for ole butch's guns.

Back to the Chapuis, First of All - no how many times this is said, no one seems to remember it - Chapuis will build the gun to your dimensions... no extra charge... period.


If you walk into a showroom and pick one up, then yes, it will have "standard" dimensions. A dealer can't order a gun "made to fit" for a customer that he doesn't know.

Do they shoot well? Yes. Are they durable? Yes.

Ask JJ Perodeau, he's supports them 100%.

The only problem with a new Chapuis is the exchange rate. A new Chapuis today cost 40-50% more than they did 3-years ago. Compare that to the cost of one of butch's new guns and i would have to buy the searcy.

They are both good guns, well made but different. As i've stated before, they are both less-than-10K double rifles. No more and no less should be expected from either of them.

But again, the price on the Chapuis is just too steep now.

newguy,

I would not call it bias - just happy customers.

NG,

I know that you are just "jack'n" with me - feel free to do so - makes this more fun!

To butress what what you are saying - I know for a fact that JJ and crew up there in Okee are great folks - lots of good references about them from my crew.

But, we just gotta prank on anything made in France!!!

Jeff