Last week I took my 585 AHR to Australia to hunt water buffalo and went through customs in Brisbane, Australia. Most anti-gun situation I have ever encountered. The two hour check went from confiscation of my two rifles because they were not proof tested. No concern that I was there for 7 days to hunt. Secondly, there was the argument that the paper work was not filled out correctly as two boxes of ammo branded Remington and Federal were listed as 416 Ren Mag. No understanding that the caliber name Rem does not have to be the manufacturer. So a move to conficate my 416 Rem Mag--softs--Swift A-Frame ammo by Federal. Next he wanted to check my one rifle scope--against what standard???
About this time his supervisor stopped by and nixed all this crap but did confiscate my one box of 585 ammo. Basis: larger than .500 inch inch dia, thus warfare ordinance. No rifles were actually held, but the big bore should have been, according to their rules, as the rifle and ammo must not be separated???

Fortunately, the outfitter helped once I went to camp and I was able to retrieve my ammo at Brisbane as I left the country.

Now the important part: I had all necessary documents, the NT police permit and the import papers filled out and verified by the customs themselves. Fortunately, I did not know at the time that the final import form was actually the authorization of customs or I would have gone ballistic.

Was I being hassled or is their system that broken??

Anyway, my advice is to avoid Brisbane as the port of entry.

Anyone else with simular experiences?????

Oh, the US customs on return was friendly and efficient, no problems.

Dak

It sounds like bunny-hugger bullshit, or those particular Aussies don't like Americans (a very rare phenomenon, in my experience).

George

I think you were just unlucky to come up against the small person in a uniform syndrome, it isn't just an Aussie thing or a Kiwi thing, I've heard of my own country folk getting hassled all to hell going into the US over the latest security regs. It seems that in such times common sense is the first casualty & the wee people just thrive on being able to hassle the crap out of whoever they like. The 5* ar5eholes among them will blight the reputation of the whole force & there seems to be nowt you can do. I think you might have come up against one of them. Having said that & in the spirit of trans Tasman rivallry, Aussie beauracrats (?) seem to have refined it to a considerable degree & the Queensland ones have made it an art form but I'm sure our Aussie members can tell me about Kiwi customs people too.
Steve

quote:

larger than .500 inch inch dia, thus warfare ordinance

This whole 50 cal BS has me seriously worried about trying to take my 600 OK to Zim next year...

Worrying about having my rifle or ammo confiscated is just not worth ruining an expensive hunt...

Might just have to settle for taking my 458 Lott...

DAKOTA45056,

My wife and I went to Australia in July of this year flying into Brisbane. We took a .460 and a .378 Weatherby Magnums. We had no problems in Brisbane with Customs officials. The whole process took about 20 minutes. They even said "I hope you get a big buffalo" as we finished up. They were polite and efficient. I hope that this was an isolated case but it does not make you feel any better when you are the one getting hassled. Now, I did have a problem with the TSA agents in California playing with my firearms before we left to Australia. Most unprofessional bunch of idiots I have ever seen. They even gave me some shit on the way back as well. I hate that state. My outfitter in Austraila said that he would rather fly into Brisbane than Sydney with firearms. I totally understand your anger as it adds to the stress most us of have flying with firearms. One interesting side note. I asked the check-in lady if I could get an aisle seat instead of the window on the return flight from Sydney. She stated that there was alot of notes listed on the computer related to us traveling with firearms and that she could not as they needed to know exactly where "I" was seated. I thought that this was strange. After that statement I felt like I was being watched the whole flight back.

WLA

WLA,

That's an interesting statement on the seat assignment comment. On Quantas flight to Brisbane, a girl came rushing back to check something. Everyone was still up and stowing luggage and again she returned running down the aisle to verify my corect seating and I was there. Seems to be special treatment for riflemen

On return to the states, clearing the rifles through customs took about 5 minutes, go figure.

Dak

Sorry to hear that this happened, from what I read you had the import permit and N.T police permit, well that means all you had to do was show them and thats it, you either got a rabid anti-gun nutter or a incompetant idiot or both who was following the wrong regs, for instance "proof testing" means safety testing and is for firearm imports on a commercial basis not visiting hunters/target shooters and if your import permit stated a over 50 cal. then it is ok, sounds like a mix up of regulations treating you on a commercial basis, I know a few people in customs and I will see what they say, Hope you had a good hunt to compensate.

SJM
Appreciate your explanation. The result was as you stated. This is the second time to Australia for buffalo with the same outfitter/PH, who now are old friends. They were disturbed by this and did contact customs and I did retrieve my 585 ammo on the way out. The hunt was great and they went the mile to make it so. The posting was my attempt to find out if this was standard treatment now days. Earlier in 2002, there was no issue with the rifles as long as the paperwork was present.

Your responses made me feel that there is no reason not to hunt the NT again.

Thanks guys!

Dak

So you didn't get to field test the 585? What a load of crap.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but my fear is returning to the US with my 600OK and my dad's 585AHR. You had no issues either leaving or returning with rifle and ammo?

CCMDoc

Right! No issues either going or comming back through customs. However, according to some posters in this thread and others, this is no quarantee on how your next custom agent will interpret the .50 cal limitation. By the way, the 600OK and the 585 AHR are registered as sporting arms calibers by AHR per Ed Plummer.

Good Luck!

Dak

Yes,It seems that it really depends on what "twerp" you get?! Last year,they took my 4 bore ammo(expensive) and didnt touch the 600 OK stuff?....Year before that,it all went through,no problem...Go figure ....Seems they are consistently inconsistent

quote:

Last year,they took my 4 bore ammo(expensive) and didnt touch the 600 OK stuff?

Perhaps that’s the key...

If we all carried some 4 bore ammo with us then anything else would be tiny by comparison and therefore ignored….

quote:

By the way, the 600OK and the 585 AHR are registered as sporting arms calibers by AHR per Ed Plummer.

Not sure that TSA or other airline agencies (foreign or domestic) care about whether a cartridge is listed as either a destructive device or a sporting round with the ATF…

They have their own BS rules…

I don’t think this is off topic from dakota45056 original post since it’s all about airline troubles when traveling with over fifty caliber ammo…

Anyone know if the NRA or SCI is making any progress on this front?

I e-mailed SCI a couple months ago expressing
concern about this, and never got a reply. I
fear so few of us are possibly affected that
they don't care.

My plans next year, albeit tenative, is too take the 585 AHR to Africa. I don't think the folks in JoBerg SA care about the size of caliber. Safari Kid has been over to Africa a couple of times already. But the problem here, (I think) is the post hunt problem, that is reentry into the US by customs. I passed the rifle and ammo by LA customs (California) with no concern. But that is no quarantee.

So it seems that aceptance of over .50 cal ammo and rifle is up to the random customs officer that you draw on that day. At least in the US, they would confiscate your ammo, but not hold up your rifle, I hope.

Dak

Dak,

Most of the problems in the U.S. have been with TSOs objecting to .50+ ammunition.

SCI is working on getting TSA and other agencies to inform their employees that sproting ammunition is exempt from the 'weapons of war' regs they are erroneously enforcing.

George

George: I'm going next March to Zim for ele, and
want to take a .577. Is there clear evidence that SCI is really working on this problem in a
way that might have it solved by next season?
Thanks, Dave

I hope to have a .600 OK built by AHR next year myself. I would be scared to death of having it confiscated and would do all in my power to make sure it was ok to bring it on a hunt. It really sucks that these idiots can misinterprit the law or simply make up the rules as they go along. If they could only appreciate how much saving and scraping some of us have to do to acquire these big bore beauties that we have and the fact that we may only get to go to these exotic places in search of big game and high adventure.

Most of us that buy a .577 Nitro, .585 AHR, .600 Overkill, etc....do with the hopes and dreams of using their fine big bores on at least one trophy elephant or buffalo. Hunters that do this not only fulfill a personal dream but they help the countries in which the hunt takes place with the monstruos trophy fees that they pay. Besides all this, it's just agitating that these "officials" can't openly recognize the difference between a sporting arm and an assault weapon! Who the hell goes on a killing spree with these big bore doubles, bolt actions, and falling blocks? Nobody!!!

I hope to go after an elephant in the next few years and I hope to bring a beautiful AHR .600 Overkill for the job but I may just have to leave it at home in fear that some bs "official" might take the gun and do God knows what with it.

There's one last thing that I'm still unsure of about these caliber restrictions of "nothing over .50 caliber allowed" policies.......do ALL countries recognize .510" cartridges like the .500 Nitro, .500 A-Square, and .50 Alaskan as legal and non-destructive .50 caliber cartridges ok for use? How about the slightly smaller .505 Gibbs? I've heard of some people being hassled when trying get a .505 cleared and not having any problems with the calibers that are called .50 or .500 that are actually .510" and larger in bore size than a .505. Then again, some have said that only the true .50 calibers like the .500 S&W are safe. It sounds like the name of the cartridge carries more weight than the actual bore size though. You would think that any cartridge with ATF approval like the NE's, .550 Mag/express, AHR rounds and .600 OK would be instantly cleared. Is it just too difficult for these "authorities" to have and carry some kind of list with the accepted over .50 cal cartridges and realize that if a piece of paper reads .416 Renington mag that it MUST be a Remington mag? Besides that, they should be able to look at the rifle and ammo, check them for functioning, and IMMEDIATELY recognize that they belong together and see that they are for sporting purposes only. idiots!

srshooter: Well said! Dave

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Dak,

Most of the problems in the U.S. have been with TSOs objecting to .50+ ammunition.

SCI is working on getting TSA and other agencies to inform their employees that sproting ammunition is exempt from the 'weapons of war' regs they are erroneously enforcing.

George

That's good but I feel sorry anyone who has the job of trying to explain the difference between a sporting rifle/handgun and a destructive device when it should be all too obvious! Good Luck.......... to the ladies and gentlemen who are attempting to educate those who are obviously uninterested in learning the easily identifyable differences between a buffalo rifle and an assault weapon! Good Luck Indeed!


I don't know what the dancing "troll" stands for but he seems to accurately represent the "officials" that dance all around common sense issues like this!

Sorry to hear about your experience mate. Even though Oz has become more anti gun over the years there appears no excuse for your very ordinary treatment.

Clearly some wanker in uniform trying to compensate for his small dick.

Brisbane is the capital of Queensland, which used to have the most "relaxed" firearm laws of any state in Oz. Then the Feds started getting involved and all pump action and semi-automatic weapons of ANY calibre were confiscated and destroyed throughout the whole country!!!! This was only a few years ago.

We have nothing as powerful as the NRA over here. You guys are very lucky in that respect.

Hope the experience doesn't deter you from coming back one day, you'll find most of the natives are friendly.

quote:

I hope to have a .600 OK built by AHR next year myself. I would be scared to death of having it confiscated and would do all in my power to make sure it was ok to bring it on a hunt.

Going to Zim next August and my outfitter as well as others here on the board said there is no problem entering or exiting that country with big bore rifles and ammo…

So far I haven’t heard of anything being confiscated other than the ammo here in the states…

If there was even a remote chance of my rifle being confiscated than I wouldn’t even consider taking it…

These hunts are expensive enough without incurring the loss of a $5,000 rifle…

As far as the ammo is concerned I am more concerned about having it confiscated on my flight out than upon my return…

Sure the ammo is expensive but if they swipe it before your hunt you are not going to find any 600 OK or 585 AHR in Africa…

Hopefully the NRA and SCI will have this cluster “F†straightened out soon…

When it comes to firearms, Australian Customs can be a problem but it depends upon who is on duty at the time. As an Aussie, travelling to and from other countries with firearms, I have had mixed results when returning home. Sometimes Customs have been courteous and efficient and other times they have been absolutely ridiculous in their anti-gun approach.

On one trip back from New Zealand, the Customs officials on duty wanted to confiscate my firearm, and the firearms of my two hunting buddies, because they claimed that the paperwork (Form B709A) as filled in by our local police firearms officer, was incorrect.

The Form B709A has a text box for listing all firearms and ammo that you are travelling with. Once the police have checked your firearms and completed the B709A, they are meant to rule off the unused portion of the form so you can't add any other items. The policeman who had completed our forms had forgotten to rule the box off. So Customs were arguing that we may have added additional items to the form and were bringing them in illegally.

However, each of us only had one firearm entered on each of our B709As so even though it wasn't ruled off, it was bloody obvious that we hadn't added anything to the form as there was only ONE entry i.e. 1 + 0 = 1!. We discussed this point with the customs guys on duty, for a long time and without success, and it was only when we demanded to see their supervisor that commonsense prevailed.

It often depends upon the individuals you are dealing with but, for heaven's sake, do not get nasty or angry because if you get them offside, then your problems will really start. Be courteous and polite but, if you know you are in the right, then just ask to speak to someone with more authority than the guy or girl on the counter - sometimes the problem is just that they are inexperienced.

577ne,

The only 'proof' I have is e-mails from SCI stating that they are working on this issue with the relevant agencies.

Bureaucrats tend to try to expand their reach and power; it is up to us to stop them.

George

George: Thanks for your efforts. We should
all keep after SCI and NRA to fix this problem.

You guys need to understand that the BATF regulations concerning over .50cal "sporting ammo" has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the St.Dpt. customs regulations.