I bought a bunch (125) of the 500-grain Speer African Grand Slam Tungstan-cored solids when they went on sale after they were discontinued. Even though my .458 is a Lott, they were just too cheap to pass up, and I figured that I could run them up to 2300 fps with a little less pressure in my rifle due to their overall shorter length.

But now, a friend of mine is about to make a trip to Zim for a PAC elephant with a Whitworth .458 Win. Mag he bought off the internet, and I have offered to load him up a few of the AGS's in that caliber in order to max out the Win. Mags potential. Now, I just need to find a load.

I plan to use AA2230, but the book I have lists the max load at 72 grain with a 500-grain solid. So, I was wondering if I could exceed this max with the AGS's since there is less compression, therefore, less pressure created (which I understand was the reason they were created in the first place).

Anybody got any load suggestions using this bullet in the .458 Win Mag?

Use the suggested load data. Work up to 2150 if no pressure signs are apparent. Good to go.

BTW PAC elephant hunts in Zimbabwe are illegal and as of now no management quota has been issued.

Actually, it's a tuskless cow hunt. I've always used "PAC" and "tuskless" synonymously. After all, what could be more of a problem ele than a tuskless?

2150 fps out of his gun is my goal, which should be easy to achieve with AGS bullets and AA2230. I just don't want to waste a lot of bullets on the range getting there. Once this stash is gone, they are gone forever (for me, at least)

I know where you are coming from. These AGS are not only expensive, but hardly replaceable.

I have a few that I am hoarding.

The Speer Reloading Manual #12 lists a starting load for the .458 with AA2230 of 74.0 gr (2134fps). Max load was listed 78.0 gr (compressed) (2239fps). This was with a 24" barrel, 1-14" twist.

I hope this streamlines your load work-up and waste as few rounds as possible.

BTW, you can be my friend too, if you like!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I know where you are coming from. These AGS are not only expensive, but hardly replaceable.

I have a few that I am hoarding.

The Speer Reloading Manual #12 lists a starting load for the .458 with AA2230 of 74.0 gr (2134fps). Max load was listed 78.0 gr (compressed) (2239fps). This was with a 24" barrel, 1-14" twist.

I hope this streamlines your load work-up and waste as few rounds as possible.

BTW, you can be my friend too, if you like!

Wow, 78 grains is 6 grains above the Max listed in the Accurate Powder reloading guide using 500-grain Hornady solids! 2150 has ought to be easy to obtain using this bullet/powder combination.

Yes, you can be my friend, but I guess I need to warn you in advance: my friends are female and come with benefits!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I know where you are coming from. These AGS are not only expensive, but hardly replaceable.

I have a few that I am hoarding.

The Speer Reloading Manual #12 lists a starting load for the .458 with AA2230 of 74.0 gr (2134fps). Max load was listed 78.0 gr (compressed) (2239fps).

I would be real careful here. Hornady also list loads that are too heavy.

I loaded 74 grains of AA2230 behind Hornady DGS (Solid) and DGX (Soft), at temp. of 30F, I was getting 2200+ fps out of my 24" Browning....78 grains would have been way too much in my rifle and I would venture in most any 458 win. mag.

With 72 grains of AA2230 I am getting 2170+/- fps in my 24" Browning Safari...that more than enough. I would start with 70 grains or less and see what that clocks out of the rifle. You could easily load 2 round each at 70, 71, and 72, total six and get a good idea of velocity over chronograph, with temp. being variable to account for....

+1 on these comments, They reflect my experience exactly. I use 72.5 Gr for about 2170. I have gone up to 74 gr and got about 2220 without any sticky bolt but I backed down to the 72.5 and am very satisfied. My shooting was at +90F so I would not be to concerned about "African Heat" with these loads.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I know where you are coming from. These AGS are not only expensive, but hardly replaceable.

I have a few that I am hoarding.

The Speer Reloading Manual #12 lists a starting load for the .458 with AA2230 of 74.0 gr (2134fps). Max load was listed 78.0 gr (compressed) (2239fps).

I would be real careful here. Hornady also list loads that are too heavy.

I loaded 74 grains of AA2230 behind Hornady DGS (Solid) and DGX (Soft), at temp. of 30F, I was getting 2200+ fps out of my 24" Browning....78 grains would have been way too much in my rifle and I would venture in most any 458 win. mag.

With 72 grains of AA2230 I am getting 2170+/- fps in my 24" Browning Safari...that more than enough. I would start with 70 grains or less and see what that clocks out of the rifle. You could easily load 2 round each at 70, 71, and 72, total six and get a good idea of velocity over chronograph, with temp. being variable to account for....

Keep in mind too that 72 grains of AA2230 gave 2159 fps at 53,808 psi in the AA setup. That's PSI, not CUP! That's rather low pressure for a .458 WM.

74 grains gave me 2227 fps from my CZ (25" bl.)with the 500gr Hornady RN. That was at 3.34" COL. I'm quite sure I could have used a couple more grains. Not saying it's needed.

The SAAMI psi for the .458 Win Mag is 62,500 MAP. 53,800 leaves a good margin, though, personally, I'd choose accuracy over a few fps one way or the other.

While AA2230 is an excellent powder, so is H335 and TAC.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Guys, you can't compare loads for other bullets with the loads for the AGS. Different bullet.

The Speer manual with loads developed for it is the way to go, not some other load that uses a Hornady or Barnes, or what-not.

To change the subject just a little, all I have are RCBS .458 Lott dies. I know you can use .458 Win Mag dies to size Lott cases, but can you vice versa?

I had loaded a few test rounds last week with AA2230 using the Hornady data in the manual that I have. I then thought I remembered reading a post here about usng 72gr+- and did a search and found this series of posts. I went back and started over at 70gr of AA2230 and went up a half grain at a time to 72gr using 500gr hornady sp's. At 72gr of AA2230 I chronoed the loads at 2135 with no pressure signs I could see. My initial load for this rifle has been 74.5gr of H4895 with 500gr Hornay SP which clock at 2145-2150. My thoughts after last weekend were to continue going up a half grain at a time with the AA2230 until I get to 2150-2170 (absent any pressure signs) and check for accuracy. I think I should get to that velocity with 72.5-73gr. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions? I could only find the Accurate Arms and Hornady data and they are very different. Thankfully I remembered this post or I could have had real problems.

With 72 grains of 2230 and a 500 hornady or 500 swift crimped at the cannalure you will probably not experience and compression in the 458 WM although it is about 100% full capacity. I did go up to 74 gr with some compaction and 2220 FPS with the 500 Hornady. I just like the 72,5 gr load @ 2170 FPS.
I do use 74 gr (2230) with the 450 Swift and it will shoot about 2280 FPS (Hi 2291; lo 2269- 10' from the muzzle) and into a tight cloverleaf at 100 yards. One of the most accurate big bore loads I have ever witnessed.

quote:

I do use 74 gr (2230) with the 450 Swift and it will shoot about 2270 FPS and into a tight cloverleaf at 100 yards. One of the most accurate big bore loads I have ever witnessed.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4911043/m/3971076231

The most accurate .458 WM load I have ever seen.

This data was taken @ 90-93F with a 24" barrel; I did edit a few notes below with regard to the 450 grain swift velocity. My historical notes reflected 2280 FPS 10' from the barrel so I suspect actual muzzle velocity was closer to 2290 FPS. None the less a spectual shooter. If anyone is interested , 73 gr (2230) ahead of a 450 swift yielded an average of 2250 FPS 10' from the muzzle at 90-93F,(excellent accuracy); All loadings utilized Hornady brass and Fed 215M primers and had a roll crimp.

Back to the original situation. I think you could most likely get 74 gr of 2230 ahead of the AGS without compaction. What I do not know is the dynamic interaction of that bullet and the barrel. It has a shorter bearing surface than a conventional bullet however you are not going to swage it down. There is nothing to compress like a lead core. Perhaps denser than a mono metal. I think the potential is there to drive the bullet a 2200FPS easily if you work up slowley. Might begin at 70 grains of 2230?
I would like to have a few of those AGS's to tinker with myself!

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:


With 72 grains of 2230 and a 500 hornady or 500 swift crimped at the cannalure you will probably not experience and compression in the 458 WM although it is about 100% full capacity. I did go up to 74 gr with some compaction and 2220 FPS with the 500 Hornady. I just like the 72,5 gr load @ 2170 FPS.
I do use 74 gr (2230) with the 450 Swift and it will shoot about 2280 FPS (Hi 2291; lo 2269- 10' from the muzzle) and into a tight cloverleaf at 100 yards. One of the most accurate big bore loads I have ever witnessed.

Everyone wants to squeeze the last drop of velocity out of the .458 Win. and thats probably the reason it has suffered..

A 500 gr. bullet at 2000 FPS will shoot through and elephants head side on most of the time. You actually get more penetration by slowing it down a bit btw..

I would shoot for 2000 to 2100 and feel real good about that. I have shot a number of buff at 2000 to 2100 in the 40 and 45 caliber guns with no complaint what so ever, and they really hammer buffalo.

My std. load in a 470 is a 500 gr. bullet at 2020 FPS, with RL-15 and a filler, light on recoil and recoil recovery is quick indeed. It is a devastating killer.